Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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If you look just at the reference, it lists the solubility of L-Ascorbic acid in Glycerin as 0.05 gm/ml which equates to 5% Wt/volume in pure Glycerin or 5 grams Ascorbic acid in 100 ml of Glycerin.
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1. Get some L-Ascorbic Acid.2. Get some Glycerin.3. Go into the lab.That is how I would get my answer. Searching for “ascorbic acid solubility” would also be a good start.Very first result;
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@Christopher I understand. As you correctly pointed out, it is not a daily calculation, but merely a mathematical teaching tool.
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But Microcrystalline Wax is not Petrolatum. Generally in the US Koster Keunen is a huge provider in the US.
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@ngarayeva001 Your question is answered briefly but accurately by Kelly Dobos in her Chemist Corner post in the closing paragraph.“Particle size can be easily minimized with high-shear homogenization and
use of emulsifiers that bring the interfacial tension to a minimum.”That is your starting point.
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@Perry My issue is not that I get annoyed, but rather that a good literature search and directed study is exponentially more effective than just asking questions piecemeal. The hit and miss approach does nothing to create a well-rounded Formulator.My first position after school I worked with several experienced Chemists who were ultimately great mentors. They outright refused to answer questions in a hit and miss matter. They would challenge me to find the answers myself. Ultimately in each case, I learned FAR more than I would have with a simple answer and the next day my questions were much more useful, advanced and deeper than my initial question. Later on in life, I found the best Techs and Chemists were the ones that engaged in reading on their own part. I was always glad to see them advance faster and oftentimes even teach me an aspect of the issue.Anything worth doing is worth doing right.
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Look at the equation. If you relaize that obviously you can’t change gravity (g), you can see that controlling particle size (r) is an important aspect that can be controlled. The viscosity of the continuous phase (μ) contributes to the stability. In an oil in water emulsion, this is the aqueous phase.The take-away is that you can;- Ensure that your process engineering and the manufacturing process are designed in such a way to create the smallest possible micelle (r).
- Use a rheology agent such as a Carbomer to increase the viscosity of the continuous phase. Many think they use a carbomer in the water phase to “thicken” the final product, but as you can see in this case the carbomer properly acts as an “emulsion stabilizer.”
THERE is the usefullness of a modified Stokes Law as a model to identify the factors in emulsion stability and to educate on the factors which you can modify in order to maximize stability.So, it is a great educational tool. It is not used in day to day Formulating like total solids or HLB.So, not so useless. -
We learned Stokes Law in College as a way to theoretically address the factors which affect stability. It is a theoretical method to address all the issues of an emulsion. It is not used in real time.Is it worth knowing to be a Cosmetic Chemist? YES. In fact, Kelly Dobos did a posting on it and its use in Chemist Corner in the past.Look at Page 3 of this knowledge base article. What do I see? Stokes Law as a predictor of Cosmetic stability. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=2ahUKEwiE-JTwsNvdAhXIuVMKHaKCDCcQFjAMegQIYBAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.essentialingredients.com%2Fpdf%2FHow%2520Do%2520I%2520Thicken%2520my%2520Cosmetic%2520Formula.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2OzdXLWzUCcVEgpELAadt3
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@Dtdang In a University setting, Emulsion Science (the discipline which covers all your questions) is a Full Semester course. As such, how can it be covered fully and effectively in a group like this?Perhaps you could start looking into Stokes Law and Emulsion Stability as a beginning.
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Again, way too large a topic to safely handle piecemeal like this. Basically, you are asking for a summation of Emulsion Science in several paragraphs.
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Well, you will not likely beat Petrolatum. The plant-based alternatives are good but Petrolatum is still the gold standard.Keep in mind that decreasing TEWL is only part of moisturization. Humectants and other materials assist also.
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@Tattvas The entire point was not to dismiss Amodimethicone but to show that a statement that silicones only deliver shine was incorrect. Now, if you wanted to really learn, you could read the entire article and see how varied the class is.
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@DAS You can get conditioning, surfactant properties, lubricity, shine and even emulsification from silicones. It is a broad class of materials and it is a mistake to categorize them so narrowly.https://www.personalcaremagazine.com/story/13149/selecting-the-perfect-silicone-for-your-formulation
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I haven’t seen anything “beat it” as it is still the Gold standard. I do know that Floratech has released some data showing Moringa Butter is very close.
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@DAS Yes, but he is intractable when it comes to taking good advice.
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I would reach out to the SCC Chapter in that area. You are coming from a very credible program and as such would be a great intern.
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Here is the issue. Soaps and surfactants are so different that you need to treat them as vastly separate and dissimilar products.I would avoid Decyl Glucoside as a primary surfactant. As many have pointed out, it is an irritant. Also, it has much negative marketing bias. There are numerous other better surfactants.Shampoos have a significant aqueous portion and a favorable pH for many water-based products which can ameliorate the irritation. (No, I am not listing a bunch for anyone, research, research, research, no freebies here, we all do this for money in real life). Also, the list is expansive and there are too many sub-details regarding each material.
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Personal Care Magazine is awesome. Although it is directed towards the Pacific market, it has great credible articles on “natural” products, their effects and Formulation concerns.Also, PCPC Buyers Guide and the C&T CBR Ingredient database on a daily basis.
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Silicones are great. One of the limitations of “naturally compliant” Formulations is the loss of these materials. The LAA silicone product you refer to is a Jeen International product. I have used it before.I have used the 3-0 Ethyl Ascorbate. It works as well as the other derivatives.More importantly, do you have a balanced product or are you like many and “Vitamin C, I need more, nothing else matters, Perricone has 20%, I want 21%!” Believe me, I hear it all the time. Vitamin C derivatives can potentiate with other products. Also, age-related discolorations are also accompanied by other signs of aging which should be addressed.
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@ngarayeva001If you look closely at “The Ordinary’s” product, you will see that THEY are not dissolving the L-AA in Silicone, they are using a pre-made product from Jeen International.What the fascination with L-AA? It is a wasteful rabbit hole you are all going down. Derivatives, pre-milled anhydrous forms FROM THE DISTRIBUTOR, etc. Avoid Ferulic acid since you are impinging on a patent. A massive dose of L-AA is a one-dimensional product.Use a stable derivative, especially if this is new to you.
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I believe you may have to run more than 250 units (likely closer to 1250 pieces minimum).
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I am running pretty robust anti-virus/malware/Firewall software and I have had no alerts on this site.
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@Fekher I will qualify one thing. In the US, Soaps were exempted from the Cosmetics Act, so they are not a huge focus for Cosmetic Chemists in the US. We do use some of the concepts of soapmaking, but in general, many of us are limited to academic training.I have worked with several “soapers” and my impression is that NaOH and KOH are the most common neutralizers. Their impact on irritation is reduced my PROPERLY doing the math either manually or with one of many Soap Calculators available. Much of the “gentleness” perceived by these products is delivered by “superfatting” the soap. (Read up on that, I have already exhausted much of my knowledge).@mikethair is likely the most qualified to weigh-in on this one. He is successfully (as judged by sales) making a soap based shampoo that sells in his market.
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In a true saponified soap, you will be unable to adjust the pH much below 8 (some wiggle room) before the soap fails and becomes unstable. Simply, soaps are not stable at lower ph levels, such as you can achieve with a surfactant system.
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Saponified soaps can be used as shampoos but as @Perry has pointed out, they are arguably not the best product as surfactant based products have a more appropriate pH and are not affected by the water quality. Yes, we can find examples where they are used and even examples where they are somewhat popular in certain niche markets. In that case, the Marketing and the market bias towards synthetic raw materials make them successful, not any pronounced advantage in the performance of the final product.