[Microformulation]

Incidentally, over the last week I have been receiving emails projecting a shortage/price increase on ethoxylated compounds (many surfactants) due to plant shutdowns in Texas during their cold snap.

[Microformulation]

brumanwong said:

Microformulation said:

brumanwong said:

MarkBroussard said:

The problem you are having is that the solubility of Caffeine is 2.17 g/ 100 ml water.  You’ll never get 5% Caffeine into an aqeous solution, the maximum would be 2.17% or actually a bit less than that.

If you look at The Ordinary formula you will see that they are using Caffeine complexed with Maltodextrin to increase the solubility which is how they get 5% Caffeine in the product.

Thanks a lot!

I’m curious about the scientific reason
behind Maltodextrin can help increase the solubility of Caffeine and
prevent it to recrystallized. If you know, I would appreciate it if you
could elaborate a bit. Does it only work with Maltodextrin or is there
any alternative? Is there any specific way working with Maltodextrin?
any ratio with Caffeine, processing method, etc?

It isn’t something you could make nor could you just add maltodextrin. It is part of an encapsulated product. It is a raw material they purchase; 

Thanks for the info, so in conclusion it must have some kind of encapsulation to address the recrystallization problem.

And realize that 5% Caffeine is way too much…

[Microformulation]

It isn’t great technique and these materials melt at a point far below the boiling point of water. “Heat and hold” is a confusing term as it is greatly misunderstood. It doesn’t come into play here. You would heat your bulk to perhaps 80C (BP water is 100C) and hold simply to allow the materials to melt under mixing.

In scale-up A manufacturer could not emulate boiling water or likely produce boiling water. Lastly if you are trying to be sustainable, avoiding heating steps is key. That is one of the key selling points behind cold emulsion technology.

[Microformulation]

[Microformulation]

brumanwong said:

MarkBroussard said:

The problem you are having is that the solubility of Caffeine is 2.17 g/ 100 ml water.  You’ll never get 5% Caffeine into an aqeous solution, the maximum would be 2.17% or actually a bit less than that.

If you look at The Ordinary formula you will see that they are using Caffeine complexed with Maltodextrin to increase the solubility which is how they get 5% Caffeine in the product.

Thanks a lot!

I’m curious about the scientific reason
behind Maltodextrin can help increase the solubility of Caffeine and
prevent it to recrystallized. If you know, I would appreciate it if you
could elaborate a bit. Does it only work with Maltodextrin or is there
any alternative? Is there any specific way working with Maltodextrin?
any ratio with Caffeine, processing method, etc?

It isn’t something you could make nor could you just add maltodextrin. It is part of an encapsulated product. It is a raw material they purchase; 

[Microformulation]

Likely you are not getting an answer since these are fairly broad topics AND they are really Fundamentals you should be educating yourself on, For example, in this case;

• Tocopherol is not water soluble (although there are some forms altered to be so, but rarely used due to issues with PEG’s. Solubulization is a huge topic which you will gain a great deal of benefit from studying formally. For example, the Gold standard is polysorbates. Does this meet your raw material standard? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNbgHvi_lqM)
• There are numerous discussions regarding Ferulic acid. When you read these, you will likely learn of the L’Oreal patent for using Ferulic acid to stabilize L-Ascorbic acid.

Again, I am just suggesting that you delve deeper into these topics and read all you can. We could just give spot-on answers, but here I fall into the “give a man a fish…” outlook.

[Microformulation]

DHA is not recommended to be used with metallic oxides as it will degrade the DHA. Here is a good summary article; https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/413/pcc-stabilizing-sunless-tanning-formulations/

[Microformulation]

Another question would be. “Did you register your personal lubricant under the 501(K) program?” The FDA classifies personal lubricants as Medical devices and requires this registration.

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Climatechangeanxiety said:

@Microformulation thanks! i know the difference between “soap” and surfactant-based shampoo.

but why does the specific formula, made with synthetic surfactants have to contain saponified oils?

why can’t it simply use contain surfactants + unsaponified oil? 

it seems to be quite alkaline in PH, thus it can’t be great for the hair? 

sorry, fairly newbie here. 

Have you gotten a pH reading on the product?

[Microformulation]

This is a really basic question and I think you may need to do more research into the Fundamentals. Traditional soaps are saponified oils using a strong base (usually NaOH or KOH) to create an alkaline soap. Saponification is the cornerstone of soap making. These compounds are generally at a higher pH and in fact can not stably be brought much below a pH of 8 or so.

Syndets or “synthetic” surfactants are far more common and can be brought to a more skin friendly pH.

[Microformulation]

1. Ultimately a Cosmetic Line is a Business. You will win or lose through solid Business practices. You should be incredibly honest; “are you a Businessperson who needs a Formulator, or a Formulator who needs a Business partner? In my experience, it isn’t sustainable to try and fill both roles.
2. Don’t go in with an inadequate budget. Early on you will not see discounts you will see as you get larger. Most start-ups have more time than money. Your only real savings will be in taking on your own Project Management.
3. A product will succeed based upon an effective Marketing strategy. Simply crowing that you are “natural” no longer will differentiate you from the crowd. You need to deliver the promised Cosmetic benefits (efficacy) and meet Market expectations for price. Know your projected Customer. WHY should they purchase your product with all the other options?

[Microformulation]

Actually, to expand upon my initial point, we work with the expressed intent of getting our clients into the market and as such, we identify barriers to these markets. An undefined and poorly researched “raw material standard” based upon an undefined term of “natural”, using the EWG is a barrier to the R&D process. Since we get in excess of 7-10 new inquiries a week, we like to identify these barriers. In this case I see several barriers. Firstly, if you peruse the ingredient decks in the line, they claim to be “natural” and “non-toxic.” Toxicity is an objective measure and has been an FTC issue in the past. Also, in the simple EWG driven “natural” standard, they use Polysorbate 20, a huge no-no. (They have other similar issues as well). Starting with Galen’s Formula (original post), the line still needs to do some market research and product identity work before approaching a Formulator whatsoever. The client should identify what the product functionally, define Cosmetic benefits intended and then do a radical re-work of the product. Honestly, I have seen that same “recipe” tens of times as an Instagram post. In summary, we simply identify issues which should be addressed to facilitate the process.

[Microformulation]

The project would essentially need to start from scratch as it if far from a Commercial Formulation. I would also encourage you to look back in the discussions (search the forum) on the terms “natural” and “toxic.” I did peruse your website and your message is a bit chemo phobic and it references EWG, a source we NEVER use.

[Microformulation]

Abdullah said:

@Microformulation they said the CAS # is 31566-31-1. 

If the HLB of GMS se is 5.8, does it make o/w emulsion or w/o emulsion if used alone? 

I wouldn’t use it alone. It needs a co-emulsifier. I doubt you could create a stable emulsion with it as a single emulsifier. Generally I see it predominately in O/W emulsions.

[Microformulation]

There are numerous issues with this Formula which is essentially the “recipe” for Galen’s Cold Cream. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_cream

• In my experience it is not stable enough as I have seen it fail in validated Stability Studies.
• This isn’t a Formula. That would be in wt/wt%. This is a “recipe” and needs to be formalized.
• You have no anti-oxidant in the recipe and you use one of the most unstable oils, Grapeseed Oil.
• Borax is not allowed in many regions such as the EU for example. Many third party natural standards do not allow it as well.

I wouldn’t even try to release this into the market with these issues. In addition, it is a simple DIY Formula. In the end, “why wouldn’t they make it themselves?

[Microformulation]

Honestly I think you see it used quite a bit in DIY Formulas and that is partially the reason you see it so often. It is hardly my go-to.

[Microformulation]

Abdullah said:

@Microformulation in most of  eastern countries they don’t do a lot of documentations for these small purchases especially if it is from a reseller. The cas no is not mentioned on it. I did email the seller after you mentioned it and am waiting for his answer if he knows. 

Now you can see why we insist on these documents. It would be a simple issue.

The HLB values are different.

Glyceryl Stearate	3.8
Glyceryl Stearate SE	5.8

[Microformulation]

https://cosmeticsinfo.org/coal-tar-information

“Coal Tar can be the active ingredient in OTC (Over-The-Counter) drug products
such as a medicated shampoo to kill and repel head lice and as a
treatment for dandruff and psoriasis. When used as an OTC in the U.S.,
Coal Tar preparations are subject to regulation known as a monograph set
by the United States Food and Drug Administration. Coal Tar is not used
in any cosmetics.”

[Microformulation]

The Forum really isn’t the place to ask for Formulations outright. What have you tried already and if you have a starting Formula people will generally weigh-in. Also, in the US I believe this is still an OTC product. https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/#/discussion/137/need-formulating-services-here-are-some-contacts

[Microformulation]

What do they claim it is on the documentation? They should have at least listed a CAS #. That would tell you right away.

[Microformulation]

PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil is produced by reacting Hydrogenated Castor oil with ethylene oxide. It is highly unlikely there is a bonafide USDA NOP Organic Certified version, but “perhaps” I am wrong. What is your source of the raw material?

[Microformulation]

3% Carbomer 940?

[Microformulation]

jacksons said:

Paprik said:

Hi, is it pomade for hair? I’m little bit lost. 

However, .. I would first worry about adding antioxidant and preservative. I don’t see any emulsifier? 

Yes, hair pomade. I haven’t added a preservative as I am currently making 100g batches to test formulas, and am still researching the best preservatives to maintain a natural (organic if possible) ingredient list. From the research I’ve done, the shea butter can function as an emulsifier. 
I’ve swapped 6% of the water content for 3% PG and 3% VG, and opted for 4% kaolin clay, 0% bentonite clay. With these changes, the formula comes out quite good; high all day hold, great creamy texture comparable to a typical clay-pomade. 

Cheers,
Jackson

Your PEG-40 HCO eliminates this Formula for the Organic standards as well as most Third Party Natural Standards. This is why the word “natural” is of little use in R&D, no defined standard.

In summary, it isn’t “Organic” (a defined standard) nor is it “natural.”

[Microformulation]

@Perry is absolutely correct.

These products are available from multiple credible distributors. Here are some links to a good site;

• https://www.formulatorsampleshop.com/FSS-Marshmallow-Extract-p/fss16693.htm
• https://www.formulatorsampleshop.com/Slippery-Elm-Bark-p/fss11485.htm
• https://www.formulatorsampleshop.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=hibiscus&Submit=

The Burdock Root is available as well;

https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/3023/561586/Burdock-Root-in-Glycerin—3222GL?st=1&sl=100180582&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbYnVyZG9jayByb290XQ%3d%3d&ss=2&k=burdock|root&t=burdock+root

In the end you are producing a final retail product, not manufacturing raw materials. They are vastly different tasks.

[Microformulation]

Keep in mind that since your materials aren’t standardized (an extensive process), you would unlikely get this Formulation into many sales outlets. Buyers can and will request documentation for each and every Raw material. We do a great deal of work with NSF and Credo Beauty. They for example will request these documents.