ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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Bill_Toge said:ketchito said:@adonason Mixing both O/W and W/O emulsifiers would make the emulsion more stable, which usually translates in more viscosity, which is the contrary to what you want to achieve.that only applies to O/W emulsions; it’s not possible for W/O emulsions to form with O/W emulsifiers present
@Bill_Toge You’re correct, I should’ve been be more precise about my comment. Thanks for bringing that up.
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@Leo Clorox bleach uses Sodium hydroxide in its formula to stabilize hypochlorite ion, which is a powerful yet unstable oxidizer. The pH that @PhilGeis mentioned for Clorox bleach falls correctly within the pH range for this product.
I honestly wouldn’t apply such a high pH gel near the eyes. We need to consider that consumers commonly missuse products. And even if they use it correctly, that area of the skin is very thin and with less production of sebum, which not only doesn’t help skin buffer the pH change induced by the product, it also makes skin more prone to irritation. Alkaline soaps wil do more harm not only because of the pH, but because of the type of surfactants present in the formula, which are capable of denature proteins and induce an immune response.
There are many ingredients that can be more safely used to fight wrinkles in that area (there are few of them with proved efficacy), so it’d be an option to explore some of them.
Your example for Covid is missleading, but I believe is not worth discussing in this platform.
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@tamicet I believe you’re witnessing the catalytic activity of ZnO. I wouldn’t actually risk, because it catalyzes many other reactions as well, that may proceed undetected. I’d rather use a coated ZnO instead (or coated TiO2).
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@Abdullah Xanthan gum will only increase the viscosity in the aqueous phase, so you still need a good emulsifying system. If your process is cold and if you’re using non polymeric emulsifiers, I think that might be a problem, since you need thermal energy for conventional emulsions to occur. If your process is cold, then you better use a cold processable polymeric emulsifier.
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@dr_chem Actually you have a lot of SLES in your formula, which worries me not only for the foaming but for the irritation potential of your product. I’d cut SLES by have and add bit by bit if you find foam not to be enough.
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@Fekher As I recall, it´s fragrance oils the ones that contain fixatives. Alcohol for cosmetic products as @Pharma mentioned, should comply with many parameters of purity (like the ones mentioned in the European Pharmacopaeia), since there are many sources and processes to obtain Ethanol (and because of that, many contaminants can be present, not to be mistaken with denaturants). In the case of Isopropanol, I believe it’s due to its higher toxicity than Ethanol the main reason for it not to be used in cosmetics.
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@Soona Providing that your Salicylic acid is propperly dispersed, then the Xanthan gum might be to blame for the loss in clarity. You could actually search for a xanthan gum for clear products. Also, betaines can behave as cationics at low pH, and that could also impact clarity (and over time, a precipitate can form and settle). I’d use Cocamidopropyl betaina instead of Coco-betaine since I believe CAPB behaves as a zwitterion at higher pH than Coco-betaine.
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@adonason Mixing both O/W and W/O emulsifiers would make the emulsion more stable, which usually translates in more viscosity, which is the contrary to what you want to achieve.
As @suswang8 commented, the high viscosity might be due to the use of butters (or waxes), or high amounts of powders (ZnO).
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@luiscuevasii The gel network is a surfactant based arrengement (high in surfactants and low in water). In the case of P&G, their gel network includes the fatty acids, a bit of both surfactants and the cationic polymer. Once mixed, the fatty alcohols crystalize and get inmobilized within the gel network, and it’s this what you add to the main mixture.
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@Abdullah The HLB rule is more like a reference, and actually doesn’t work for many emulsifiers. That being said, if your difference on HLB between your emulsifiers is high, that can give you better stability (just consider one of the most used emulsifying systems: Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-100 Stearate).
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@Perry Thank you, that’s very clarifying. I was actually puzzled about that for quite some time. Here in Latin America we’re forced to list all ingredients from top to bottom, regardless if the concentration is higher of 1% or not.
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@luiscuevasii When deciding to make the pearl in situ, mixing and cooling rate are the most critical parameters. P&G uses a gel network with their fatty alcohols as pearl source, and the mixer needs to give you a good shear while making the premix (like a rotor-stator homogenizer), and low shear during the cooling stage. Cooling rate is also key so the crystal arrangement is properly formed and oriented.
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@Abdullah Since you’re making an O/W emulsion, you’d need a higher amount of a high HLB emulsifier. Also, I’d choose a high HLB emulsifier with a higher HLB (closer to 14-15).
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@Abdullah It depends on your formulation. If you have a stabilizer (like some Carbopol), then you can use fluid Dimethicone (I’d go for a 350 or 1000 cst viscosity). But if not, a Dimethiconol emulsion can also perform well (only, the deposit will be less). For instance, DC 1784 or 1785 can be used.
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@hubahubister Propylene glycol has also some hydrotropic properties, of course, not as potent as SXS, but it’s worth to try.
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@Abdullah While the three of them work better at reducing charge density which is more perceivable at static reduction under dry conditions, PQ-10 and Guar HPTC are modified polysaccharides that form a rigid film on hair, while PQ-7 being a copolymer, has more degree of freedom. What I mean is that even though the three are more for dry effect on hair, PQ-7 has a little influence on wet combing as well. Nevertheless, silicones are superior on both wet and dry combing, and can be used alongside (except cationic silicones) or replacing them.
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@twokchu Another option is that the gelling agent is becoming less hydrophilic. This can happen when for instance, there are divalent ions like Ca2+ or Mg2+, which make polymer chains to coil and not let water in. Maybe the super secret “Active complex” has some of it.
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@amitvedakar While the carbonyl group in Sodium benzoate and Methyl paraben can be attacked, nitrates are not good nucleophiles. And under certain conditions, the aromatic ring can undergo nitrosation, but it requires rather acidic conditions for this to happen. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t use Potassium nitrate in cosmetics containing amines, or at all!
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@twokchu It’s just an idea, but those extracts can ovewhelm your preservative system at high doses, and some bacteria could degrade your gelling agent.
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@Leo Organic acids like Benzoic or Sorbic acid work well for this purpose (you can get them as their salts: Sodium benzoate or Potassium sorbate). You can start at 0.3%.
But if you don’t mind using a formaldehyde donor, then Glydant Plus or Liquid Germal Plus are very good broad spectrum preservatives. You can find a lot of literature about them.
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@ttk102360 If the ingredients list is properly declared (from high to low), then the amount of Ceramides and Cholesterol seem very low. Also, I believe they’d need to be able to penetrate quite some to reach the dermis so they can stimulate lipid growth, and especially for Ceramides, that might be hard since they are usually large molecules.
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@emma1985 Dimethicone of 1000 cps is a higher molecular weight silicone than 350 cps, so it’d give you more slip than a 350 cps, that’d feel a bit more dry. I’m not saying the 350 cps gives a dry feel, since if you compare it to most esters, the 350 cps would still feel more lubricious. You can still use the 350 cps if you only have that one, and still perceive the benefits of dimethicones.
This difference between the 350 cps and the 1000 cps is more dramatic in hair products, where the 1000 cps would deposit more on hair due to its molecular weight.
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@Leo Suttocide A is a very powerful preservative (if you don’t mind that it’s a formaldehyde donor, of course), I believe you still need to add an antifungal.
But I believe Euxyl K940 might also lack of the same activity since Ethylhexylglycerin is not a powerful antifungal.
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@Zink I’d use a 1000 cps dimethicone, increasing it from 1 to 2%.
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@Zink If you want more slip, then you need to increase your Dimethicone or add Mineral oil. Massage creams rely heavily on both.