ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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@Squinny I use DC 1501 (Cyclopentasiloxane and Dimethiconol) to control viscosity, so the level really depends on the viscosity you want. D5 is the short name for Cyclopentasiloxane. The restriction came from Europe so it might be adopted (or not) by other countries. Not that I agree with the restriction (you’re not allowed to use more than 0.1% in rinse off products -which no one does, since it doesn’t make sense to use D5 in a rinse off-, and soon, it’ll also be inforced for leave-on -which doesn’t make sense either since by the time of your next shower, D5 might have been evaporated already-). But anyway…
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Fekher said:@ketchito have you an explanation why in shampoo, carbomer can increase the viscosity however in hand gel the opposite?
@Fekher In a shampoo, carbomer might not be dominant regarding viscosity, but some other molecules like surfactants and salt are. The good thing is that due to carbomer’s interaction with surfactants, it doesn’t collapse in the presence of salt.
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@Ehsaale Personally, I don’t like much the type of foam that Betaine gives without an anionic. I’d still add an anionic like a sulfonate, taurate or sulfosuccinate.
Guar HPTC could be a bit too much at 0.5%, not only because of excessive deposition (if you don’t have an anionic, Betaine won’t be able to remove too much of the Guar deposited, especially in the absence of sodium chloride….and also, you could have an issue with gelling over time). Be sure to fully hydrate your Guar HPTC lowering down the pH and mixing for enough time.
Btw, I see in your formula DC 1501, but you mention it’s a silicone free shampoo. Did I get something wrong? If you want to put a silicone, DC 1501 won’t be my first choice, since most of the ingredient (which is Cyclopentasiloxane) would be rinsed away.
What’s your preservative?
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MarkBroussard said:@ketchito
You are confusing Hydrogen Peroxide and Benzoyl Peroxide … Benzoyl Peroxide would be used in an acne product.
@MarkBroussard You’re right, my apologies. Funny I made that mistake, since I used to work in the past using Benzoyl peroxide to synthesize azides. My bet.
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Indeed, it’s an anhydrous formula. We have a similar one, but we’ll need to reformulate it due to inforcement of Cyclopentasiloxane (D5) restriction, which will be a hard thing to do because of the sensorial and volatility of D5. If it’s for personal use, you’ll be fine, but consider that restriction if you plan to sell it.
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@Formi Cetrimonium chloride at 0.5% won’t be enugh to emulsify your system. As @lexi_dclabs mentioned, switching to BTMS-50 at higher levels could help, you need to balance it up your fatty alcohol to get the right viscosity. Also, you’re using too much glycerin; usually, you want to “waterproof” your hair to avoid frizz and unnecesary volume increase.
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It’d be nice if you write the formula declaration for the product you mentioned. Anyway, it’s different to have a carbomer in a hand gel (where the carbomer forms a hydrogel), and have it for instance in a shampoo (where it forms different structures with the surfactants). In the hand gel, you might see colapse of the carbomer upon addition of salt, while in the shampoo, you might even experience an increase in viscosity.
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@DavidW Those ingredients are not commonly seen in hair cleansers. Hydrogen peroxide is used in oxidizers, as part of the dying process (EU requires some warning to be put in the label). It is also very unstable and requires very low pH and the use of some stabilizers. In a shampoo, I don’t see how it could work (it’s very water soluble and the product rinses off, so contact time would be limited -if any- to interact with hair).
Chlorhexidine salts are used as preservatives in cosmetics, al low doses. The amount you’re using makes me think of an antiseptic. I haven’t seen a shampoo with that level of Chlorhexidine, and that’s why I thought it might be for veterinary use.
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A total anionic content of 7% is a bit low for a hand wash. With that level of Betaine, I believe an increase of anionic surfactant would make a difference.
As @Quimico suggested, addition of a chelating agent can also work. The addition of a foam stabilizer (like CDEA) can give a more durable foam. If you want to increase flash foam, an amine oxide is recommended.
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Syneresis is the physical evidence of the issue (like fever is the physical signal of a immune response from your body). I agree with many comments that it’s necessary to check the polarity of oils, and I also agree with @Anca_Formulator that the oils are too high (a bit more than 60%, if I counted correctly).
So, check that your oils have more or less similar polarity, and reduce your oils (try with 40% instead of 60%). Also, don’t forget to preheat your butters to prevent blooming.
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@Allison73 You could use either an emulsified wax (Lamesoft TM Benz) or a polymeric suspension (Opulyn 301).
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@Nicky Even though commercial lye has some sodium hydroxide as stabilizer, they are not the same. You might have experienced some oxidative process, and that’s why you’re seeing a rapid change of color and destabilization. Use a pure solution of sodium hydroxide instead (water + sodium hydroxide), wether at 50% or more diluted. And ALWAYS read the technical information of your ingredients upfront.
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@DavidW Just out of curiosity, those are pet products, right?
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@PassionFruit95 As @evchem2 mentioned, the process is fundamental to get flat crystals that can properly reflect light. Also, you probably added too much Glycol distearate (try just with 1%), and have too little surfactant. Also, you could remove HEC since you already have Acrylates copolymer and Salt.
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Total active content is the content of the pure surfactant (as if you have it as a 100% material, not taking into account water present in commercial solutions).
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@Mohandoifode Does your soap contain a chelating agent and an antioxidant?
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@starlord13 It depends on which types of surfactants you’re using (there’s good synergy with most anionics, but little with amphoterics). Also, each type of amine oxide might have a different viscosity (some might improve while others could impair it).
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@Abdullah Due to the irritation from cationics in leave-on products for skin, cationic emulsions are usually not the first choice as emulsifiers, but (ethoxylated) non ionic ones are.
In hair, the story is different. From a rinse off product, the cationics remaining will be the ones that managed to interact with functional sites in hair; in leave on, it’ll be the ones that are part of the film covering each fiber. But on skin, way more product can remain in contact with skin for longer periods of time. Plus, for skin you don’t need the type of conditioning a cationic surfactant gives to hair. There are more choices avaliable to lubricate the skin.
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@starlord13 What’s the total surfactant level you’re using? Also, do you have a chelating agent? It’d be better if you post your formula, with percentages (at least for your main ingredients).
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@Abdullah I usually add the 88% solution. If you have the powder version, you just need to make the conversion. By the way, what’s the composition of your actic acid? You mention 80% and yet, you have a solid ingredient.
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@Abdullah I usually add the acid first to the water, so it’s fully dissolved. Then heat, and add the SAPDMA.
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@Formulator That’s why preservatives that can be solubilized/emulsified by highly ethoxylated non ionic surfactants, are better added in an emulsion, during the cool down phase.
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@Miassa Intimate formulas usually have a bit lower pH and the inclusion of an antibacterial (or a bit high amount of lactic acid), to control microbial growth in that area. Also, you produce more sebum especially in your face, so it makes more sense to have two products instead of one: one for face and hands, and the other for intimate areas.
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@lesmith1018 There are different types to boost SPF, so you need to be more specific.