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Did neutralized carbomer will be electrolyte resistant by adding fatty (acid or alcohol)?
I remarked that a koalin scrub product contains as thickener neutralized carbomer with low level of stearic acid supposed in the 1% line , the product has main ingredients water then kaolin and it contains sodium lauryl sulfate supposed that product is high electrolyte one so how carbomer resisted that?
The viscosity of product is higher than the viscosity of ordinary hair gel?
Any explanation from experts @Bill_Toge @Pharma @Graillotion @Perry @Abdullah .. -
13 Replies
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Carbomers are a family of ingredients , so there are grades of carbomer tolerant to electrolytes and surfactants , even the ones that are not design to be tolerant can withstand some electrolytes and surfactats , it all depends on the concentrationsfatty acids or alcohols can add viscosity by themselves but won’t provide any stabilizing effect to cabomers , in fact fatty acids/alcohols would have a negative effect on texture when combined with carbopols , but again it all depend on concentration and grade of carbopol used -
@HAL49 yes you have right about there are a lot of types of carbomer but my question about not resistant electrolyte ones did fatty (alcohol/acid) make them more resistant?
About adding stabilizing effect for sure fatty alcohol and acids give more stability for cream product and even about texture not always true that they have bad effect with carbomer, actually the kaolin cream have lovely texture and for sure stearic acid made the emulsion more stable. -
Fatty alcohols aren’t electrolytes and fatty acids only after neutralisation (i.e. soap). The ‘saltiness’ of a molecule depends on its charges (anion and cation) and its molecular weight. Amphiphilic molecules such as emulsifiers have a ‘saltiness’ of roughly 1/3 of what you would calculate based on that; 1 part sodium stearate corresponds to ~15 parts table salt = its salt effect and carbomer interaction are minor.
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It’d be nice if you write the formula declaration for the product you mentioned. Anyway, it’s different to have a carbomer in a hand gel (where the carbomer forms a hydrogel), and have it for instance in a shampoo (where it forms different structures with the surfactants). In the hand gel, you might see colapse of the carbomer upon addition of salt, while in the shampoo, you might even experience an increase in viscosity.
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@Pharma I know that fatty (alcohol and acid) are not electrolyte my question is if we add them to neutralized carbomer will they give some resistance to carbomer versus electrolyte?
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@ketchito have you an explanation why in shampoo, carbomer can increase the viscosity however in hand gel the opposite?
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Fekher said:@HAL49 yes you have right about there are a lot of types of carbomer but my question about not resistant electrolyte ones did fatty (alcohol/acid) make them more resistant?
I am using pre-neutralized Carbomer in my products. I don’t think there’s a relation between the resistance and the percentage of the fatty alcohols. Also I think the idea behind the use of the Carbomer is to reduce the percent of the fat phase consistency givers, because they are heavy and unpleasant in high percentages.
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Fekher said:@ketchito have you an explanation why in shampoo, carbomer can increase the viscosity however in hand gel the opposite?
@Fekher In a shampoo, carbomer might not be dominant regarding viscosity, but some other molecules like surfactants and salt are. The good thing is that due to carbomer’s interaction with surfactants, it doesn’t collapse in the presence of salt.
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I’d like to add here that once you pass a certain threshold with kaolin concentration (~15%) it takes on rheology attributes that overcome all other contributors. Up to that point I’ve found that most grades work in synergy with carbomer - wierd but true - in spite of those divalent earth metals in kaolin it does not dissolve or dissociate….until it does.
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Nice add @chemicalmatt
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@Fekher - I’m not Arabic, only know basic bits and bobs of Arabic.
I think I saw it in Jeddah, made in Jordan but the jar was green.
If it’s from China, there’s a high chance that LOI is inaccurately listed.
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