Tagged: formula help
Dupe of Clarins Instant Smooth Perfecting TouchPosted by squinny on July 31, 2022 at 12:14 am
Hi all I want to make a similar product for myself (not to sell) based on Clarins Instant Smooth Perfecting Touch. The listed ingredients are:
Cyclopentasiloxane Dimethicone Dimethicone/Vinyl
Dimethicone/Methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer
I dont care about the last 4 ingredients (assume colorants). I basically wanted to know what people think the % are for the top 5 ingredients or at least the 1st 2 as a start - I dont have all the ingredients anyway and also the % of the Acacia Sengal Gum. Is there any other thickener here? Not quire sure where th 1% line is so any advice would be most welcome. It is a balm like product with no water. Sells for $45 (AUD) for 15 ml jar! so wanted to make something similar with less ingredients for much less I’m thinking around $5 for same or less. Many thanks. Cheers
MemberJuly 31, 2022 at 8:56 am
You can heat the product to evaporate the water and see what percentage is total solids.
If it is leave on hair product in my opinion everything is below 1% or Cyclopentasiloxane is 1-2% and the rest of it is below 1%.
MemberJuly 31, 2022 at 5:57 pmSquinny said:…
Cyclopentasiloxane: Main ingredient, it’s volatile. The more you take, the less greasy the product will be after ‘drying’ (10-20 min?) Dimethicone: To add occlusion, cushioning, it’s the main ingredient you’re going to feel after ‘drying’ Dimethicone/Vinyl
Dimethicone Crosspolymer: Film former & viscosity
modifier, often comes as blend. Use this or similar at an amount which suits your needs. Go with manufacturers recommendation as a start. Hydrogenated
Vegetable Oil: Oil thickening ingredient. Low %, may be left out or replaced with other ingredients.
Dimethicone/Methicone Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer: See the other crosspoylmer.
Silica: Texturising ingredient, reduces oiliness, gives powdery feeling & might increase viscosity. Usually used in the low % range. For trial and error runs: just add different amounts to the final product, homogenise, and see if you like the texture (not super accurate this way but a good & fast estimate). Disteardimonium
Hectorite: Maybe the main oil thickening ingredient. Often comes as blend with the next three ingredients and cyclopentasiloxane. I’d rather use this than hydrogenated oils; usage rate is probably in the range of +/- 5% (of a blend!).
Tetraisostearate: Cushioning emollient & film former which imparts some degree of gloss but may likely be omitted
Alcohol. Likely part of the hectorite or other blend. Omit if you want to Tocopheryl
Acetate: Not required, likely part of a blend
Glycol: Likely not required cause likely not enough for hydration. However, the glycol phase is likely to hydrate/swell with sweat and air humidity… not sure if the effect is actually noticeable
Dimethyl Silylate: Thickening agent for the glycol phase, maybe also part of a blend, omit if no glycols etc. are used
Senegal Gum: Likely the emulsifier for the glycole phase, omit if no glycols etc. are used
Phenoxyethanol: Preservative, not using it may be okay if only silicones & no glycols are used Caprylyl
Glycol: Preservative, not using it may be okay if only silicones & no glycols are used
Glycol: Preservative, not using it may be okay if only silicones & no glycols are used@Squinny See comments in quote. As a starting point, just mix the first two ingredients at different proportions (more cyclo than dimeth) and try them out, mostly regarding oiliness and residue on skin. Then add a silicone polymer and/or disteardimonium hectorite to adjust viscosity. Use silica to fine tune (if dimethicone feels too greasy). That should give you a fair dupe or at least a good basis with which you can play and add some % of your own favourite (oil/silicone soluble) ingredients. Water/alcohol/glycol soluble ones may be dissolved in alcohol/glycols and adsorbed to silica prior to its addition .@Abdullah It’s an anhydrous formulation with a volatile silicone oil as main ingredient; heat drying doesn’t help here.
MemberJuly 31, 2022 at 10:50 pm
Thanks very much Pharma appreciate all that info and great advice. I have to order a couple of the ingredients I dont have so will have to wait a while to have a play with but I have the 1st 2 ingredients and half of the rest so will go through your notes on each and see what I can do without.
Thanks Abdullah and yes it is an anhyrdrous skin product (face, neck).
MemberAugust 1, 2022 at 1:43 pm
Indeed, it’s an anhydrous formula. We have a similar one, but we’ll need to reformulate it due to inforcement of Cyclopentasiloxane (D5) restriction, which will be a hard thing to do because of the sensorial and volatility of D5. If it’s for personal use, you’ll be fine, but consider that restriction if you plan to sell it.
MemberAugust 2, 2022 at 3:53 am
Thanks Ketchito I dont plan to sell just for me and maybe family members if it turns out ok. Out of interest what % of Cyclopentasiloxane and Dimethicone do you use in your formula approx?
Also is the restriction an American thing or worldwide (I’m in Australia and also dont sell any of my products and only do on very small scale ) - And sorry ignorant here what is Cyclopentasiloxane (D5) restriction about - sorry dont know what (D5) means either.
ketchito said:Indeed, it’s an anhydrous formula. We have a similar one, but we’ll need to reformulate it due to inforcement of Cyclopentasiloxane (D5) restriction, which will be a hard thing to do because of the sensorial and volatility of D5. If it’s for personal use, you’ll be fine, but consider that restriction if you plan to sell it.
MemberAugust 2, 2022 at 12:18 pm
@Squinny I use DC 1501 (Cyclopentasiloxane and Dimethiconol) to control viscosity, so the level really depends on the viscosity you want. D5 is the short name for Cyclopentasiloxane. The restriction came from Europe so it might be adopted (or not) by other countries. Not that I agree with the restriction (you’re not allowed to use more than 0.1% in rinse off products -which no one does, since it doesn’t make sense to use D5 in a rinse off-, and soon, it’ll also be inforced for leave-on -which doesn’t make sense either since by the time of your next shower, D5 might have been evaporated already-). But anyway…
MemberAugust 3, 2022 at 12:49 am
Thanks for sharing that info Ketchito appreciate it. Is there somewhere I can read about the restrictions for D5? (not that it will impact my products as only for myself but I may buy more now in case I cant get easily later). Cheers
MemberAugust 3, 2022 at 12:19 pm
@Squinny You can find that info from many references. Here’s an example: https://www.obelis.net/blog/cyclopentasiloxane-d5-and-cyclotetrasiloxane-d4-restricted-in-the-eu/
MemberAugust 3, 2022 at 5:42 pm
the silica is most likely fumed silica, which gels oils and makes them less fluid
MemberAugust 3, 2022 at 10:41 pm
Thanks everyone for your advice.
MemberSeptember 27, 2022 at 5:52 am
Hi everyone that helped me with this formulation. I made my first test batch today and the only issue I had was when I added the Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (which as I was basically doing a cold process) didn’t want to dissolve I added last as I wasn’t sure I needed this ingredient so probably wasn’t the right move either! - Is there a trick to adding this - needs heat? Anyway I don’t know why I added it as the formulation without it was pretty good. Only made 30g to test so now ready to make a larger batch with what I learnt from my 1st test. I didn’t end up doing the glycols (so a lot more basic than the Clarins one but it only cost me a few dollars to make - Clarins is $50 (AUD) for 15g.
I also added mica and beige premixed iron oxides (which was great as didn’t have to buy a whole lot of different colors to get the color I wanted!), Zinc Oxide +Titanium Dioxide Transparent (Dimethicone coated) to the product which made it a light beige (just what I was after). Note that I am not adding these for any SPF values but if it adds some that’s a bonus. It is really meant to be a face primer so you put on before applying foundation etc. The version I made makes my skin feel smooth and had a matt finish (what I wanted).
Before I make my next batch does anyone have suggestions on what % max I can use for the Titanium Dioxide (above)? I didn’t want to add any more Zinc Oxide as I don’t want that white effect. I was pleasantly surprised how nice the Mica feels too as have never used before as this type of formula new to me.
Log in to reply.