ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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No worries. Now, Sarcosinates are hard to thicken surfactants. Can you replace it with Sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate? The latter has a better viscosity response when mixed with CAPB (not as high as SLES, but decent), and will help you save some money. Also, you cal try /removingreducing Polysorbate 20 (which can also reduce viscosity). Most surfactant-based formulas don’t require a solubilizer for the fragrance.
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What’s the pH of your product? Sodium cocoyl glycinate gives a pH-dependent viscosity. I believe around a pH of 6 you can get the highest viscosity, but I’d advise you to try different viscosities, from 5.5 to 7.0.
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Try adding some chelants, like MGDA or GLDA. You shouldn’t have any issue with glucoside-based surfactants at low level.
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This type of serums doesn’t have an emulsifier. Instead, it uses its thickeness to suspend oils. The White cast could be do to the hyaluronic acid or the gums.
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Glyceryl stearate and Cetyl alcohol are not emulsifiers, but structuring agents. Same for Stearic acid (unless you neutralize it? This, and the fact that we don’t know the polarity of your oils, might be leading to an instability of your emulsión. One of the samples was more stable perhaps due to higher mixing time/speed or different cooling rate. I’d put both samples in the oven to see if they are stable, and run my calculations again to see if I have enough emulsifiers (and the right one) for the oils you have.
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Got it @PhilGeis . Supplier will have to deal with his mess. I wouldn’t compomise product’s or consumer’s safety ????????
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Thank you @MarkBroussard and @PhilGeis . I was thinking to lower the pH of the botanical extract, but I understand thtat even at very low pH, that would only inhibit growth, but not reduce the population.
The extract is a liquid extract (solvents are water/propylene glycol). It doesn’t show anywhere which preservative system it’s being used). The manufacturer is called Nanofitotec (Brasil). I’m attaching some screenshots from the technical docs they gave my client. Weird thing is that their count for mold in the CoA is 10 cfu/mL, but in the technical sheet, it says 100 cfu/mL ????.
The products where the ingredients will be used (at a dose of 0.01%) are a conventional shampoo (pH 5.0-5.3), rinse-off conditioner (pH 4.0-4.5), leave-on spray (pH 4.0-4.5)…and that’s it.
Would it be possible then to use part of the preservative system (EDTA/Phenoxy/Sodium benzoate) in the botanical extract, prior to its final use?
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate this.
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Try doing a knock-out test. Your refined Pracaxi Oil might not be too compatible with your silicones. Also, why are you using an emulsion? Keep in mind that your Amodimethicone, C11-15 Alketh-7, Laureth-9, Glycerin, Trideceth-12 is an emulsion and has water, which can be also affecting your clarity.
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SLES + CAPB is a ver easy to thicken system with NaCl (no need to add gums), unless you’re using the wrong ratio of surfactants, a low level of them, or too much Propylene glycol and/or Glycerin (which in a shampoo is nonsense).
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I’d add your Lauryl betaine almost at the end, followed by peg-150 pentaerythrityl tetrastearate (in case you’re using the liquid version).
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If you remove that top layer, you’ll see that your product is still shiny. What happened is that the top part lost water. At what temperature are you filling your bottles?
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Yes, but you won’t give lubrication to hair which is a must for hair masks. Keep in mind also that emulsions tend to increase im viscosity over time, while the structure stabilizes. There’s also an increase due to water loss.
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Maybe you can try with different ratios of anionic/CAPB? CAPB is the one that has the strongest synergy with SLES and SLS, especially when it comes to mildness. You could alternatively use amphoacetates.
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Why don’t you use sulfonates (like alpha olefin sulfonate)? They are very stable at low pH. Same as for SLS.
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It might be the case that your LABS once neutralized, is salting out from your product due to the very high amount of salt. I’d advise you to either thicken the product with something else so you don’t need to add as much salt (maybe CAPB), or neutralize with TEA instead of NaOH (although, you still have too much NaCl). You could also add SXS.
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Assuming this is a rinse-off mask, you can some oils to make your emulsion interphase less rigid (like silicones and esters).
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If you only mix your BTMS and your Argan oil, you won’t have an emulsion. The little oil you see separating might be just syneresis.
Cleansing balms are actually emulsions, and for that, you need a decent amount of water and a nonionic surfactant as well (BTMS forms a very rigid structure when emulsified with water, so, if your water phase doesn’t have enough viscosity, you might experience phase separation). Check for the formulas of big brands as reference (CeraVe has a nice Cleansing balm).
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It might be that your level of LABS is too high for the amount to NaCl you’re using. Since you already made the batch, I’d advise you to drop in some Sodium xylene sulfonate. You can take a sample of your batch to test the amount needed for your product.
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Also, Glycerin at 10% will only impair your foam. I wouldn’t use it at all to be honest, since it’ll just go down the drain in a cleanser.
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Your system has such a large amount of oils compared to the amount of water to be a w/o emulsion (you don’t even have a proper emulsifier for that type of system). To be honest, I don’t know how that system could keep together. What I’d do is to remove the water-based extract….or perhaps try adding a w/o emulsifier, to see if it helps.
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Hi!
You can see PEG-80 sorbitan laurate (Tween 28) as a more ethoxylated version of Tween 20. They have both the same structure but with different degree of ethoxylation. It’s like comparing Sodium laureth (8) sulfate to Sodium laureth (2) sulfate (the former is a very mild version of the surfactant while the latter is the one that everyone use).
But because PEG-80 sorbitan laurate has a high degree of ethoxylation, that makes it milder and in practice, a different molecule to Tween 20.
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Can yoy describe your manufacturing process?
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6% of paraffin oíl might be a little too much. Start with 1-2%. I don’t think you’d need more…although, I’d personally prefer silicones.
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Turbidity due to oils (like fragrances) tend to eventually go to the top. Turbidity due to surfactants (salting out) always go to the bottom. I’d make one batch without LABS amd put it in the fridge, to see id there’s precipitation. If it doesn’t get turbid, then you put it back and neutralize it with TEA (you’ll need more compared to NaOH to get the right pH). Put the sample in the fridge to see if there’s precipitation.
And as others mentioned, use a good preservative system.
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There are many professional cosmetic chemist and formulators in this forum ????