jemolian
Forum Replies Created
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I’d say the question is not if it can, but to what layer and how long would it take, and why / for what purpose.
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It should really also include a “dead sea salt” seasoning packet.
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Looking at the inventor info, i’d assume the fermented rice emulsifier is the Technolong Rice Ferment LP since it’s from Technoble? I saw it being sold by China repackers.
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The addition of Curcylic 40 might have lowered the pH too much for the Sepimax to handle. You can check what pH the Curcylic 40 is in normal distilled water, and perhaps adjust the pH of the formed gel before adding the Curcylic 40.
If you use high percentages of oils then making a transparent gel won’t be possible. Though if you still prefer to add small percentage of lipids, then using a solubilizer will help.
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Normally you should be able to add to either phases, however the end result can be different if you add to either one of the phases, such as difference in viscosity or soapiness or skin feel. The technical sheet of some emulsifiers may show this comparison if they note a large difference, such as Olivem 1000 or PolyAquol-2W, which some of the comparisions.
Normally if i’m making a small test batch of 30ml to 50ml, i’ll just one pot it and add everything into the water phase to heat and process.
For the “homogenize”, you can just mix the phases by stirring normally before mixing both phases if you require, mainly for dispersion of the ingredients.
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@mikeylamar you should be able to find a list of UK sellers from a site like makingskincare or the DIYBeauty sub reddit
- https://makingskincare.com/cosmetic-ingredient-suppliers/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYBeauty/wiki/suppliers
Seems the more common emulsifier blend for the UK is Vegetal / Montanov 68.
Though if you still prefer to purchase from the same seller, you can consider replacing part of your Cetyl alcohol with small percentages of Carbomer. Note the processing method and ingredients that are electrolytes if you consider the Carbomer.
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@grapefruit22 I had copied the info from the MSDS on their ulpropsector page, though on their seppic product page, they do also mention both of them as “Inherently ultimate biodegradable”. I believe we can refer to the test spec conducted that was written on the MSDS if that would be accurate on the polymer?
@ketchito I see. Thanks for the info on that.
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From what i’ve seen when comparing the SDS, Sepinov & Sepimax seems to have a higher biodegradability percentage. Is there a particular reason why that could be the case compared to the others?
- Sepinov - 93 % - Inherent - 28 days
- Sepimax - 79 % - Inherent - 28 days
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Glyceryl stearate & Peg 100 5%
Cetyl alcohol 4%Have you considered changing to another emulsifier blend that can thicken by itself? At least to me it seems relatively high in total percentage.
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Normally people formulating natural / natural derived ingredients don’t really come after synthetic polymers, i guess they don’t really think about it other than the synthetic status?
If there are people coming after the plastics, it would be the people interested in the reduction of microplastics. https://www.beatthemicrobead.org/
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you know actually this polymer is presented to the market as tightly coiled then after hydrating it is slowly starting to uncoil with a negative charge, slightly acidic. best condition to repel each other and remain uncoil.
You might want to look again at the tech sheet. It comes as acidic & “coiled”, it “uncoils” when wetted in water and with the pH increased above pH 4.5, depending on the specific polymer.
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Your percentage of Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate is too low. You might want to state the trade name of this ingredient since there are many types, some are not meant for emulsifying.
You will normally need an alkaline buffer if you use Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate.
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Please guide me whether the mixing of these materials will give me a transparent lotion or not?
No, it will not. You might want to test whether your solubilizer is able to solubilize all your lipid ingredients first then see how much percentage is required to make it transparent.
Will the NaPCA make the pH of product on 5-6 or it will be less? It is a good humoctant as well.No one will know, so you need pH buffers if your formula requires. Don’t depend on Sodium PCA to adjust the pH.
I also read here that so many chemists are against HEC, why? Because of its solubility and time wasting? Or its feeling on skin?They have their reasons, but do know that HEC is fine to use, just that it will require processing to ensure that it hydrates properly.
Generally is it good moisturizer lotion with smoothing feeling?Hard to predict that.
One more question is I’m worry about the stability of the product according to the ratio of oil and water phase, in textbook it’s max 74%, mine is so much!It’s a reference but it depends on what materials you use.
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If you want to make a transparent lotion, there may be 2 ways:
- Solubilize the lipid / oil phase, then thicken it. However, the lipid phase shouldn’t be that large because the solubilizer can cause soaping due to the percentage required.
- If you look for clear or transparent type lotions in retail, they may use a water soluble emollient or lipid. Normally those will be PPG / PEG type emollients or silicones. Sometimes they may add humectants but call it a lotion.
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There are courses by Perry listed on the main site page, you can see if the modules fit your needs.
https://chemistscorner.com/products/
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1, 2 or 3 can depend if you have an emulsifier for the oil phase, and a heated process as well.
As Graillotion mentioned, sometimes it doesn’t matter. When Sepimax is hydrated and formed the gel, just high shear it to emulsify the oil phase, then switch to low shear.
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I’m a minimalist, usually maximizing functionality with the streamlined ingredients. I will evaluate & scrutinize my ingredients closely to see if they can have overlapping functions to reduce the use of others if possible.
What Microformulation mentioned about the MOQ / billing of ingredients is something i consider as well. If my product comes to market in the future, i do still have buffer for “fluff” but i believe i’ve considered my functional ingredients already have marketing potential since it’s part of the evaluation.
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You can look for a liquid emulsifier blend or non-bodying emulsifier blend. For example from Making Cosmetics, the CreamMaker® FLUID. Or Montanov L or 202 for non / low bodying solid blends.
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@Paprik normally the shear tolerance is mentioned in the tech sheet for the polymers if they are fine with high shear. At least that is what i saw for Aristoflex AVC, Sepinov & Sepimax.
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I don’t really have a fav but i normally use Sepinov EMT 10 more often currently.
On hand, i have:
- Aristoflex AVC - If i need better thickening or stiffer
- Aristoflex Silk - Something between AVC & Zen
- Sepinov EMT 10 - If i need something soft
- Sepimax Zen - If i need something more electrolyte resistant
Each of them has different textures and sensory, so i use them at a case by case basis.
Sepiplus 400 is a polymeric emulsifier blend, so it’s different from the others you have mentioned since you can use it to create emulsions by itself. For polymeric emulsifier blends, i normally use Sepigel 305 since it’s what i have on hand.
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I find that Glyceryl Glucoside works for my skin, besides from the ones listed above. I’m in an air conditioned room most of the day and i break out if my skin is overly dry.
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I put my thickeners in an air tight container with a large bag of silica gel (I bought a large container of those).
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It depends on what you determine ineffective or efficacy, and also your marketing & budget.
In terms of product functionality wise, it depends on how you want to define the “wrinkle”, “dry” and “aging” to be. How you choose your ingredients can determine performance and how you market.
- Sometimes normal humectants can relief some fine lines via moisturization temporarily, so that also counts.
- For dry skin, do you need a humectant or lipid ingredient?
- For aging, how old and what concerns do they have?
Some examples:
- If with humectants + anti aging, then Natrasmooth + Matrixyl 3000
- If more serious fine lines, then a humectant + Argireline + Matrixyl 3000
- If going more Asian Beauty (plant extracts), then Green Tea Extract + Ginseng
- If going for popular barrier repair trend, then Ceremide Complex &/or Niacinamide + Matrixyl 3000
- You can choose to add some antioxidants for marketing purposes, such as CoQ10
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Propanediol should be less sensitizing.
You can search for Propanediol on https://www.cir-safety.org/ingredients , look at table 12, page 61 of the PDF for a comparison that they reviewed.
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I’m probably using too much emulsifiers.I heard that dimethicone reduce the white foam but it’s also not available for me.
what should I do? ( reduce the emulsifier’s ratio and add another polymer like carbomer to increase the viscosity ?
switch to other emulsifiers?
Do you have any tips to help calculate the right ratios ?Seems you more or less have the ideas in your mind.
You can perhaps refer to emulsifying blends’ SDS that uses Cetearyl alcohol + Ceteareth-20 to combine your own ratio and then use a carbomer.
Ref SDSs for blends that contains Cetearyl alcohol + Ceteareth-20: