[jemolian]

Sometimes it can be a very fine line between what you call a product, because a toner is just slightly larger in volume compared to a serum. 

For example, with 5% Lactic Acid, it can be in a toner or serum, so the difference can just be the volume. 

For example for 5% Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate, it can be in a toner or serum, but as it’s slightly more pricey, it will normally be in a serum format so that it would be more reasonably priced for the consumer. 

So it’s up to you to decide what makes a toner or not, but some toners are thicker and may contain gums. 

[jemolian]

You can check the solubility of the ingredients in Propylene Glycol but normally you won’t really use it at such as high percentage compared to Propanediol.

[jemolian]

Personally i don’t use any gums in a toner formulation since i use it in a spray if make one. You are lacking a preservative though.  

[jemolian]

You can dupe the product from The Ordinary and use LAA with Propanediol.

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/5134/is-l-ascorbic-acid-soluble-in-1-3-propanediol

Products reference:
https://theordinary.deciem.com/product/rdn-ascorbic-acid-8pct-alpha-arbutin-2pct-30ml?redir=1

Alternatively: 
https://theordinary.deciem.com/product/rdn-ethylated-ascorbic-acid-15pct-solution-30ml?redir=1

[jemolian]

Do you mean the peaked trail that stretches out from the blob of cream on your fingertips?

Yes, i think that’s what it is? It doesn’t really look really good with gums most of the time. Or maybe i’m just used to looking at the products with carbomer types. 

For the HEC, i bought mine from China, but the specs seems to be the similar as the one from lotioncrafter. It hydrates better with heat or higher pH. If i’m being slightly lazy while making a water based serum with HEC, i’ll add some Sodium Phytate to help hydrate the HEC, then lower the pH later on. At least i don’t have to heat it and still have a chelating agent. ::smile:

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/hydroxyethylcellulose-hec-1?_pos=1&_sid=b8b1a1944&_ss=r

[jemolian]

TBH, i’m not really a fan of gums, maybe because it makes my cream looks a little weird during pickup. I have all 5 of the gums (Xanthan, HEC, Sclerotium, Solagum AX & Solagum Tara). Out of the gums, i’ve tried Xanthan, HEC & Solagum Tara. 

I don’t think it will be easy to avoid soaping because it still largely depends on the formulation, that’s why i tend to use polymeric emulsifiers in place. If i had to choose, i’d use HEC if there’s a heated phase, at least with HEC i don’t experience much of the slight weird skin feel that Xanthan Gum might give, but i don’t think HEC would be considered “natural”?. If you prefer a gum that can thicken, you can try Solagum Tara but one version of the cream i made still soaps with it. 

[jemolian]

The Dehydroxanthan Gum that i had made my cream pill or ball up, so it’s not something i’d use again in a leave on product, so i’ve also used it to thicken a micellar gel formulation instead. 

Normally if i have to add a gum, i’ll normally add HEC if it’s a heated water phase. Have you considered Solagum Ax or Solagum Tara?  

[jemolian]

Normally i’d do 1:1 for Glycerin to Betaine, example 1.5% to 1.5%, i’m fine with Glycerin up to 3% in a polymeric emulsifier formulation as i’m in a humid country, having it too high would be slightly too tacky for me. 

[jemolian]

@EVchem mainly r/SkincareAddiction since i’m there most of the time. 

[jemolian]

I think a good place to look would be reddit on the trends, so at least on there, people are looking for hand creams due to frequent hand washing and also products that reduce breakouts due to the face mask. However, as they are working from home or in self-quarantine, there are also people taking a break from their normal routine or going “caveman” as what they would describe. Color cosmetics would likely take hit if people are required to wear masks or if the length of people staying home increases. 

[jemolian]

@GabyD i’m in Singapore

I do have small amounts of Sepimax Zen on hand which i have been using it with 70% IPA, and also various types of Ultrez though i’m waiting for my TEA & Aminomethyl Propanol to test. 

[jemolian]

Where i am, there was no alcohol & no sanitizing products for about a few weeks, though right now there’s sufficient supply for consumers to purchase or for DIYing.

Feeling kind of lazy and also the price of ethanol isn’t very competitive, so i’ve also bought a 5 litre 70% ethanol & a 5 litre sanitizer gel since it’s cheaper.

[jemolian]

There shouldn’t be any issues with Tara Gum, though you will need to check if Siligel can take the Benzalkonium Chloride & Sodium Chloride.

[jemolian]

It’s the Carbomer with Triethanolamine as it’s neutralizer. 

[jemolian]

HEC will take certain conditions to hydrate. Either higher temperature or higher pH. 

For the Sodium Carbomer, not sure if you have tried the slurry method by mixing it with a water free liquid ingredient and mixing it in while blending.

You can also make 2% or 3% gel and add the percentage of gel as required if you are having issues. It’s something that i usually do if i make very small test batching like 30 to 50ml where i can’t use a overhead stirrer.  

[jemolian]

You can use an emulsifier that is suitable for oil cleansers and also add an oil based thickener. For cleansing balms, they can use thickeners like Synthetic Wax, so you can consider that. 

[jemolian]

@wannabe_chemist well, i hope you are not discouraged with formulating with Urea. Perhaps i only find that the issue would only be if you are selling it thus needing to maintain the pH. If not, there shouldn’t be any issues by making small batches if it with a suitable buffer for home use where you can monitor the changes with pH. I’ve made quite some Urea creams myself, usually 50ml batches. 

Regarding Humblebeeandme, i find that for Marie’s content, it has evolved from kitchen DIY to something more experienced, so i’d only recommend for reference for people that are either beginners or intermediate levels.  

[jemolian]

You will need the suitable neutralizer for the carbomer. 

[jemolian]

Sepimax Zen can be slightly tricky to use since it takes some time to hydrate. Normally i’d make 2% stock of prehydrated Sepimax Zen that would be added after combing the oil & water phase.

If you are making a one pot, no solids formulation, you can add it all together to let it hydrate then homogenize after a few hours.

[jemolian]

There are quite a lot of PEG free natural emulsifiers so which have you tried? 

[jemolian]

Use another thickener that can take the 70%. You can try Sepimax Zen. Assuming you are only using it for yourself and can take the cost of it. 

[jemolian]

TBH, the choice largely depends on the individual, if they need a really oil-free product, they would go for the gel. Some people choose to do that because the ingredients in the lotion or cream breaks them out, such as the emollients or silicones used. Quite some people i’ve seen at least on reddit, mix oils with gels, eg, Squalane + Sebamed Clear Face Care Gel.

For retaining skin moisture, it’s very likely that an emulsion is better due to the use of occlusives that the gel can’t contain. 

[jemolian]

No, usually i purchase my ingredients from repackers / resellers on taobao and forward the shipment to my country in Singapore. The sellers in China holds slightly different ingredients compared to the ones in the US or UK/EU. 

[jemolian]

I usually buy most of my ingredients from China but you can see if you can purchase from here https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-7197-triacetin.aspx

[jemolian]

There shouldn’t be any issues if you mix and use it daily but making a 15ml solution daily can be rather tedious, though you can pre-measure the amount into small containers.