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  • Emusifier for lotion with great skin feel for small time operator…

    Posted by Graillotion on March 15, 2020 at 7:44 am

    I have been chasing PEG free ‘natural’ emulsifiers, but have not been too impressed with what I have tried..  If I throw natural out the window… what is an emulsifier that I as a small business can readily get…that provides a really nice skin feel?  BTMS 50?

    Would prefer something that does not have much soaping effect.

    Your thoughts please.

    Graillotion replied 4 years, 1 month ago 8 Members · 15 Replies
  • 15 Replies
  • jemolian

    Member
    March 16, 2020 at 2:04 am

    There are quite a lot of PEG free natural emulsifiers so which have you tried? 

  • EVchem

    Member
    March 17, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    What kind of lotion/actives will you have- how much oil content and are you going to use hot or cold process? Every emulsifier has strengths depending on the environment 

    BTMS is cationic and common for conditioners- it works well for hair but on skin it might not feel as smooth and spread as nicely

  • OldPerry

    Member
    March 17, 2020 at 2:56 pm

    Yes, there is no answer to this question without more information.

    Your emulsion choice depends on…

    1. What oils you are using
    2. What level of oil
    3. What other ingredients you are using
    4. What type of product you are making

    There is no magic emulsifier that works for everything.

  • LincsChemist

    Member
    March 20, 2020 at 10:41 am

    Olivem 1000 (Cetearyl Olivate & Sorbitan Olivate) is a good go-to PEG-free, relatively “natural” emulsifier, compatible with most things I’ve tried it with, not cheap though. Use it in combination with some fatty alcohol.

  • EVchem

    Member
    March 20, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    See personally  I don’t like Olivem because there’s  usually a bit of soaping when I work with it. Most people who are using Olivem for the ~natural~ angle  won’t add a silicone which would alleviate the issue.

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    March 20, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    If you put Olivem 1000 in the water phase, you can moderate the soaping effect. I always use the Olivem in the water phase and I have never noticed any soaping effect.

  • lewhitak

    Member
    March 20, 2020 at 4:10 pm

    There is Eumulgin SG (Sodium Stearoyl Glutamate) by BASF and a few options from Roquette (DS 146 comes to mind) that are EO-free. Sepinov has an EO-free polymer called Sepinov WEO.  

  • Graillotion

    Member
    March 21, 2020 at 7:05 am

    lewhitak, thank you for that information, I will look into those.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    March 21, 2020 at 7:07 am

    ggpetrov, I had looked at O 1000, many times….but always heard such negative comments about the soaping.  I am not familiar with adding the emulsifier into the water phase….is O 1000 water soluble? 

  • Graillotion

    Member
    March 21, 2020 at 7:20 am

    jemolian said:

    There are quite a lot of PEG free natural emulsifiers so which have you tried? 

    So far:
     INCI (USA & EU): Candelilla/Jojoba/Rice Bran Polyglyceryl-3 Esters, Glyceryl Stearate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Stearic Acid, Copernicia Cerifera (Carnauba) Wax 

    INCI: Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate

    INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Cetearyl Glucoside

    INCI: Polyglyceryl-6 Distearate (and) Jojoba Esters (and) Polyglyceryl-3 Beeswax (and) Cetyl Alcohol

  • Graillotion

    Member
    March 21, 2020 at 7:27 am

    EVchem said:

    What kind of lotion/actives will you have- how much oil content and are you going to use hot or cold process? Every emulsifier has strengths depending on the environment 

    BTMS is cationic and common for conditioners- it works well for hair but on skin it might not feel as smooth and spread as nicely

    Oil content 14% +/-1%, butters 4%

    vitamins, ACE+B5

    Allantoin

    odds and ends: Hyaluronic acid, propanediol, silk amino acids

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    March 21, 2020 at 11:28 am

    ggpetrov, I had looked at O 1000, many times….but always heard such negative comments about the soaping.  I am not familiar with adding the emulsifier into the water phase….is O 1000 water soluble? 

    You can put Olivem into the water phase without any problems. It’s not water soluble, but it can emulsifies perfectly it this situation. If you look at the manufacturer of Olivem 1000 - Hallstar, they suggest two options for this emulsifier - you can put it into the fat or water phase. You can even make an “oil free” creme gel with 5% Olivem 1000 and only water. Just keep in mind that the structure of the emulsion will be different. I mean if you put Olivem into the water phase, the final emulsion will have a bit lower viscosity, compared to that made with Olivem into the fat phase. You can moderate the viscosity by adding more fat alcohols or butters. Also the emulsions made with Olivem into the water phase are more light and fast absorbing than standart ones.

  • Bill_Toge

    Member
    March 21, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    if you can get hold of Evonik Goldschmidt materials, try Tego Care PBS 6 (polyglyceryl-6 stearate / polyglyceryl-6 behenate) - it’s a remarkably robust and reliable PEG-free emulsifier, it even works with high concentrations of acids, salts or urea

  • Graillotion

    Member
    March 22, 2020 at 4:54 am

    Bill_Toge, thank you….hehehe…believe it or not….I have requested some of that on UL two days ago.  Sometimes they send….sometimes no….hehehe…I have a gmail address….so that really throws up red flags.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 8, 2020 at 5:40 am

    Bill_Toge said:

    if you can get hold of Evonik Goldschmidt materials, try Tego Care PBS 6 (polyglyceryl-6 stearate / polyglyceryl-6 behenate) - it’s a remarkably robust and reliable PEG-free emulsifier, it even works with high concentrations of acids, salts or urea

    Got the PBS 6….worked well in one lotion, but failed in the more difficult mosquito lotion.  So far….e-wax and 165 are the only two that can hold that puppy together. :) 

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