[Heath0o7]

@PhilGeis @Graillotion @Perry44

I’d like to understand the pictures I have attached below,

If phenoxy is effective against gram negative bacteria and limited against gram positive bacteria and poor against YMF, then how come in the picture as seen when Caprylyl Glycol is blended with phenoxy it makes it now effective against gram positive bacteria? I thought Caprylyl Glycol isn’t a preservative?

Also, in the first picture, as you can see that phenoxy is blended with Benzyl Alcohol, EHG and Tocopherol which claims to be not only effective against gram positive & negative bacteria but also effective against YMF. I get how it will be effective against gram positive & negative bacteria because of the BA and phenoxy, but how is it effective against YMF? I’m confused about how EHG, Caprylyl Glycol and Tocopherol play a role in preservatives.

[Heath0o7]

I forgot to add that I have thick hair.

[Heath0o7]

Thanks for the tip. Wouldn’t adding CETAC with BTMS would make them compete since the do the same thing?

[Heath0o7]

Thanks for the tip! I did a test batch and neutralized it to pH 8 then reduced the pH to 5.3 and the thickness thinned out and became runny again. So I tried a different method, where I neutralized the carbomer in a separate beaker, and I added all the other ingredients in another beaker and adjusted the pH to 5.3. I then added the neutralized Carbomer and stirrer until it was well incorporated and that seemed to keep the thickens. It only thinned out a little, but it’s a lot better than the previous testing. Thankfully the remained the same which is good.

[Heath0o7]

The supplier says it’s a lightly cross-linked acrylic polymer with approx 30% active. That explains why it didn’t thicken

[Heath0o7]

I’m not sure what type it is, the supplier’s website only states that it’s an acrylate copolymer in its acid form, and the pH must be increased to thicken. I’ve emailed the supplier to ask what kind it is, I’ll see what they say.

As to the pH of the product, 5 is fine. I’ve put 4-5 because of the benzoate, but I can use LG+ instead since benzoate doesn’t work well with carbomer

[Heath0o7]

I see, would you recommend using either liquid germal plus or parabens instead of sodium benzoate? As for neutralizing the Carbomer, do I increase the pH at the end then decrease it to 4-5 and that should thicken it?

[Heath0o7]

Cool, yeah I usually add GLDA as its the only chelator I have.

I wanted to check if it’s true that Sodium Benzoate & Potassium Sorbate are effective against fungi? I read that on sciencedirect and also NCBI website I think.

[Heath0o7]

Sure, if I was to make a facial Cleanser and want the pH to be 4-5 and I’m using phenoxyethanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin as one of my Preservatives. Now, I want to use another preservative to cover YMF. Would it be fine to use either Sodium benzoate & Potassium Sorbate, or Triethyl Citrate, Caprylyl Glycol & benzoic acid? Hope this clarifies it.

[Heath0o7]

So it’s only the Benzoic Acid that’s doing the preserving?

If that’s the case can this preservative be used instead of this: Sodium Benzoate (and) Potassium Sorbate (and) Aqua to cover YMF? Or is the latter way better

[Heath0o7]

What’s LG+ stands for? I’m making a Clarifying shampoo and want the pH to be 7.5. At the moment, the preservatives I thought of adding are phenoxyethanol and Ethylhexylglycerin as well as PG, Diazolidinyl Urea and Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate. I’m not sure if the later would cover gram + and YMF?

[Heath0o7]

I wasn’t talking about “natural”, so im not sure why you thought i cared about natural preservatives or asked if they are natural. Quite frankly, I don’t care about natural preservatives. I think you and phil saw the screenshot i took from makingskincare that claimed natural and assumed i was asking if these Preservatives were natural ????. My question was regarding how EHG, Tocopherol and Caprylyl Glycol play a role in preservative which you answered by saying they enhance the actual Preservatives like phenoxy and BA to enter the cell membrane to preform better.

What if one were to use Phenoxyethanol, Benzyl Alcohol, Ethylhexylglycerin and Tocopherol as Preservatives, would they still need to add Sodium benzoate/Potassium Sorbate to cover most of the YMF? If so, what if the formula you’re making is above pH 6. Would you then opt for a preservative like Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea and Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate?

[Heath0o7]

Thank you for that

[Heath0o7]

Would Benzyl Alcohol (and) Salicylic Acid (and) Glycerin (and) Sorbic acid & Phenoxy + EHG be broad enough to use in a lotion with a pH range of 4-5?

[Heath0o7]

Thank you @Graillotion for mentioning the INCI for these preservatives. I hope @PhilGeis answers the question?

[Heath0o7]

Do you recommend 350cst over Cyclomethicone & Dimethiconol? My Amodimethicone comes on its on, it’s not mixed with CETAC and Trideceth-12. However, I do have Trideceth-12 by itself that I can include in the formula?

[Heath0o7]

I see, thanks for the explanation. I don’t know how to hydrate GHTC without using glycerin though.

[Heath0o7]

Unfortunately, I don’t have Urea or Sodium PCA on hand, but isn’t Sodium PCA a humectant like panthenol. Would I be able to use Panthenol only? Also you mentioned they need a compatible emulsifier, which one would you recommend?

As to Caffeine, the only thing I have on hand is green coffee bean cellular extract, but my supplier does have Caffeine powder. Would the extract work or I’m I better off getting the powder?

As for Butylene Glycol, can I substitute it with Propylene Glycol or would it be a skin irritant? Because I have that on hand. Thanks so much for the suggestions! That’s helpful to know!

[Heath0o7]

How come? Doesn’t glycerin help provide moisture in leave-in conditioners?

[Heath0o7]

I have made an anti dandruff shampoo with Salicylic acid before and I added the SA in SCG and heated it to 45°C and stirred till it was dissolved. I’ll do the same here. My main issue is the thickness. I’d love to have my Shampoos a little thicker than they usually come out

[Heath0o7]

Cool! Do you know if Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate is anionic or non-ionic? I know edta is anionic, but I couldn’t find any information for TSGD

[Heath0o7]

I could add Salicylic Acid. Thanks for the suggestion @Onur I’ve made a batch, but unfortunately the shampoo thinned out after adding the water to the surfactants. I tried using carbomer 20 (0.5%), guar gum (1%) and HydroxyethylCellulose (1%) and the shampoo keeps thinning out when I add the water phase to the surfactants. Even adding the amphoteric last still did the same thing. I know that salt thickens shampoo, but I only have table salt which probably won’t work since it has iodine/Sodium ferrocyanide. I do know that watery shampoo cleans just as good as thick shampoo and I don’t mind it, but it would be good to learn how to thicken DIY shampoo without using salt if you don’t have any.

[Heath0o7]

Thanks @Abdullah the water percentage would be 51.8% would that be okay?

[Heath0o7]

Are those percentage as in ASM or amount per weight? Because if it was ASM that would make it 16%, wouldn’t that be too strong and out of range (10%-15%)? Thanks for the pH tip, I’ll keep it 6. Is 7 bad as well?

[Heath0o7]

I’ve changes the formula to this: <div>

pH is 8

phase A:
73.69% Distilled water
0.3% Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate
0.5% Carbomer 20

Phase B:
12.5g Sodium Alpha olefin sulfonate (5%)

2.94% Sodium Cocoyl isethionate (2.5%)

Phase C:
8.57% Sodium Lauroamphoacetate (ASM 3%)
0.5% Tea tree oil

Phase D:
1% Exyul PE 9010.

</div>