[Heath0o7]

I agree with @Camel about everything he said. One thing I can add is try using 1% BTMS-85 (0.85% active) and 5% fatty alcohol to test stability. I personally never worked with BTMS-85. Only BTMS-50 and 25 and they usually contain a fatty alcohol in them.

As for the humectant, test 3% and see how it goes for you. You could also try increasing the glycerin to 5% (bare in mind it will feel a bit sticky, but it goes away once your hair has dried)

For the dimethicone, 2% would do the job well and would save you some extra for more use.

I would also personally get rid of the protein as it will only form a protective layer for to keep hydration which you already get from the dimethicone. It’s MW is too large to penetrate and provide deep hydration.

Happy formulating and let us know the results 😊

[Heath0o7]

I’m a beginner Formulator as well, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Since this is an oil to water emulsification after combining phase A & B in one beaker and Phase C in another. Heat them both up to the same temperature to melt the emulsifying wax, then add the oil phase to the water phase and blend vigorously until it’s homogenized. Let it cool to below 40°C/104°F then start adding your heat sensitive ingredients, such as fragrance oil, Preservatives (not all preservative are heat sensitive) then use citric acid to adjust the pH.

Also, keep in mind that when heating your water phase, the evaporation would result in some water loss. You could either add 10% extra water at the start or keep track of your measurements and add what is lost after. The total formula needs to equal to 100%

[Heath0o7]

Hey guys, appreciate the input! I made the lip balm and I used Shea butter. I actually don’t have a problem with Shea butter. It wasn’t grainy and I used unrefined. The recipe I made is as follows:

20% Beeswax

10% Shea butter

10% mango butter

20% Cocoa butter

18% jojoba oil

13.9% sweet almond oil

4% caprylic/capric triglyceride

3% flavor oil

1% fragrance oil

0.1% ROE

The lip balm turned out great in terms of texture, smell and application. However, it didn’t hold the moisture in and after applying multiple times throughout the day. My lips would still be chapped. I’m not feeling any improvements. I thought maybe it would be a good idea to add mineral oil to hold the moisture in. What do you think? If so, how much should I add?

[Heath0o7]

Glad to hear! Yes, that’s normal. It will go away within 24 hours or so

[Heath0o7]

Thanks for that

I’m just wondering if vitamin E - natural D alpha-tocopherol (not mixed Tocopherol thats used as an antioxidant) if used as an active does it really do good for the skin? Like increase E levels in the skin or its just a marketing tactics? 🤔

[Heath0o7]

Did you mean 6% in total of CCC and IPM?

[Heath0o7]

The issue could be the fragrance oil and the Aloe Vera extract. Fragrance oil is known for thinning the viscosity. What I’d recommend is either getting rid of the extract as it does nothing and will save you some time and adding a Thickener like Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride (about 0.5%) and see how it goes. Add a drop of an acid like citric/lactic Acid to your water then blend the GHTC slowly into the water to be soluble. You’ll start to see it thicken the more you add. Also, I tend to add my EDTA last before I adjust the pH and once I start adding my acid the formula thickens a bit and after 24hrs it thickens really well.

Another tip is add the Allantoin in the water phase by heating the water to 50°C/122°F then add it. It’s easier that way. Then start adding the rest of your water phase ingredients

[Heath0o7]

@Camel thanks for the tip! I’ll experiment and see how it goes 😃

[Heath0o7]

1) The Vitamin E I was referring to is natural D alpha-tocopherol 1000IU. I read that it does provide benefits to skin on NCBI website. I can’t remember how much the usage rate was though. I like using Rosemary antioxidant 0.1% as my antioxidant as its oil soluble and I don’t have mixed Tocopherol 700IU

1b) I’m still new to formulating I didn’t know about esters and their job. What would you recommend the usage rate be and what sort of ester to use? I have Coco-Caprylate, but I can get from my supplier Jojoba ester-70, isopropyl myirstate emollient Ester, myristal myristate, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate or PPG-3 Benzyl Ether Myristate.

2b) thanks for the tip, I could get my hands on PCP as it does also has a good pH range 4-9 and cheaper than SSG

As for humectants, I have tried glycerin and propanediol. Both at 5%. I didn’t like the stickness of glycerin, but I’ll experiment first with propanediol and SL and see how it goes. Would 5% propanediol and 2.5% SL active be a good start?

Thanks for the tips! I appreciate it!

[Heath0o7]

I could be wrong, but I think phenoxy may be Incompatible with polysorbate-20. I can’t remember if it was 20 or 80, but maybe @PhilGeis could tell us. If it’s compatible, I’d still recommend adding either Potassium Sorbate or sodium benzoate to cover YMF as Pheno+EHG is still not broad spectrum enough. Be aware though, your pH would have to be below 6.5 if using sorbate or below 5 if using benzoate.

Even though the surfactants you’re using are mild, I agree with @Camel it’s best to reduce the active surfactant matter to between 4.5% - 6% (you can experiment to find out suitability).

I’d also not recommend using the extract in the formula if it’s for personal use as it does nothing unfortunately. I hope this helps. Good luck! Making cosmetics is really fun!

[Heath0o7]

<font color=”#01574e”>@Yolise and @PwrsNY thank you for the tip</font>

[Heath0o7]

I see. If both of my surfactants are mild/gentle, do I just focus on finding a ratio that results in good performance I’d imagine?

[Heath0o7]

Correct, it’s only for personal use. I think I’ll use Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside instead of CAPB. How much percentage should I add Hexanediol? Should I dissolve the SA with the CCG, Propylene Glycol or Hexanediol?

[Heath0o7]

Thanks @Abdullah

[Heath0o7]

If I were to use 20% edta solution, what would be the usage rate for it when formulating? Is it 0.2% (0.04% active)?

[Heath0o7]

Correct, only mine doesn’t have isobutyl paraben mixed in it.

[Heath0o7]

Just wanted to give you guys an update, I ended up using Disodium laureth sulphosuccinate, Sodium lauroamphoacetate and Caprylyl/capryl glucoside and the formula was actually thick before I added a thickener. I decided to use 0.9% Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride as my thickener and the handwash turned out nice. It’s somewhat foamy, but I don’t mind that as I know I don’t need foam to get rid of dirt. Thanks everyone for your help! 🙂

[Heath0o7]

I see, what would you recommend to use @Abdullah I have the following surfactants: decyl, coco, capryl glucoside, CAPB, Disodium cocoamphoacetate, Sodium lauroamphoacetate, SCI, SCG, SLGC, Amine oxide, ALS and AOS.

[Heath0o7]

@Perry44

Thank you so much! I appreciate it! You gotta trust your gut lol

One other thing that I’d love to learn is once you’ve decided what your ASM will be, how do you assign it to your surfactants? Is there a ratio to follow?

Also, I’ve been getting conflicting answer about this, should a hand wash ASM range be 10% - 15% or below 10% like a face wash?

[Heath0o7]

Thank you for the clarification @Paprik

Do you think the combination of Disodium laureth sulphosuccinate (3% active) and caprylyl/capryl glucoside (2% active) would produce a good foam? I’ve decided to only use those two surfactants.

[Heath0o7]

Thanks @CarolineChemist

[Heath0o7]

@fareloz thank you for the clarification!

Just out of curiosity, would there be a way for HA to penetrate deep into the skin? Like using an enhancer, or there’s just no way for it to penetrate no matter what

[Heath0o7]

It says the carbomer is in its acid (2.1-4.0) form which is why it’s liquid. I assume that means it’s preneutralized? It recommends increasing the pH to thicken it.

[Heath0o7]

Thanks for the tip! I did a test batch and neutralized it to pH 8 then reduced the pH to 5.3 and the thickness thinned out and became runny again. So I tried a different method, where I neutralized the carbomer in a separate beaker, and I added all the other ingredients in another beaker and adjusted the pH to 5.3. I then added the neutralized Carbomer and stirrer until it was well incorporated and that seemed to keep the thickens. It only thinned out a little, but it’s a lot better than the previous testing. Thankfully the remained the same which is good.

[Heath0o7]

The supplier says it’s a lightly cross-linked acrylic polymer with approx 30% active. That explains why it didn’t thicken