[Gustavo]

Thank you Robert!

[Gustavo]

But if you know of any company that sells it I can manage to find their distributors in Brazil. Or even ask some distributor to make business with them.

[Gustavo]

Sorry, I don’t know of any distributors because I’m from Brazil.

[Gustavo]

Yes! You guys are right. It took me time to understand what you were saying. I expect to inhibit peroxidation. Thus to enhance peroxidase enzymes.

Anyway, reading my suppliers’ catalogs I couldn’t find this well described. And also skin care and aging are not the fields I’m most skilled. It would be of great help if you just point out one or two ingredients.

[Gustavo]

It won’t smell sharp right after opening because it’s on a tube and there’s no space between the product and the cap. The free space where alcohol would be in vapor is the bottom of packaging where the tube is sealed.

As far as I know ethanol helps the conditioner solubility in water. I’ve worked with it in a past project a couple of years ago. And it may be there also for preservative purposes considering there’s no preservative declared.

What amazes me after all is not alcohol is the declared anionic surfactants. They seem out of place for me.

[Gustavo]

You may use a mix of those emulsifiers. Try to mix a high HLB emulsifier with a low HLB one. That helps stabilizing even if you didn’t calculate the required HLB. But the ideal is to calculate your oil phase required HLB and then pick the emulsifiers most fittable to your formula.

Make clear what does natural mean to your company. Because PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil is natural BUT it is excluded from some lists due to the EO portion.

[Gustavo]

Thanks @Bobzchemist. I was thinking of something like that but this week I’ve seen a recent product with Corn Oil in its ingredients list.

[Gustavo]

If it is still in time. Instead of just doubling SLES, double CAPB. I’d try with 6% SLES + 2% CAPB. It’ll require less salt to thicken.

[Gustavo]

Try ashland polymers such as Gafquat 755 (Polyquaternium-11) and Styleeze W17 (Polyquaternium-55). There’s Croda’s Lustreplex (Polyquaternium-70). And there also Akzo Nobel’s Celquat H100 (Polyquaternium-4).

[Gustavo]

There’s Euperlan (Cognis) and Antara (Ashland). I usually prepare my own blend of Aqua, Glycol Distearate, SLES, CAPB and Cocamide.

[Gustavo]

That’s such a great idea @vitalys! I never tried arginine for that purpose also. Thanks for sharing!

[Gustavo]

I would focus the difference on the amount of cationic emulsifiers and humectants because some hair types require high amounts of oil content and silicone, etc.

[Gustavo]

If you already have a thick formula A and want it to look like a butter in B. Don’t increase anything, specially capric capryic triglycerides and isopropyl myristate.

Add just beeswax instead of increasing the rest.

The best solution would be adding Structure CEL 500. Whenever I tested it I obtained a butter-like product.

[Gustavo]

@Bobzchemist even with this type of formulation we usually make microbial contamination testing because still some mold could grow on surface with humidity water. At least in Brazil where it is HR 75-80% average most of the year.

[Gustavo]

That’s the other tip: ALWAYS question your suppliers about their raw materials. Of course we must test and run the knock-out series but the supplier must know or at least be interested in knowing the ingredient. I always question and ask them to run some testes in parallel. This way we learn together. Sometimes when there’s time to wait and I have other profects with narrower deadlines, I even demand the information on the supplier and keep going with my taks. There was only once I had issue with that because the supplier didn’t do anything. And then I replaced their ingredient. Now I can trust all my suppliers on this support.

[Gustavo]

Since it got to my knowledge, I’ve been testing co-washing ant talking to women who use this technique. It’s really helpful. And the best of all: I’ve found out there’s no need to avoid silicones or most of the forbidden ingredients.

IMHO (there’s still no scientific evidence) sulfates are excellent detergents and that’s why they “damage” ethnic hair. Because it’s a hair type already lacking natural lubricity and if we remove all the natural oils it will be necessary to “re-lubrify” these shafts. Then, if we use milder surfactants like any sulfate free they’ll remove less grease and then time after time the hair will look better because it won’t lose it’s natural moisture (oils are film formers and their emolliency help keeping water inside the hair).

I tried to summarize in a single paragraph. I hope it is somewhat clear what I meant. And my statement is: “yes, co-washing do work for ethnic hair”.

[Gustavo]

That’s great! What’s the next challenge? LOL I always ask that to my coworkers when we achieve a goal.

[Gustavo]

Well @Bobzchemist mentioned the most important at all. You have to run some tests. It’s part of a cosmetic chemist routine. Another very important issue is: always question what’s said by suppliers and their websites/brochures, etc. I’m not saying they tell lies but not so absolute true statements.

This soaping effect my be caused by (1) emulsifiers balance, (2) excessive amounts of mineral oil, petrolatum and cetearyl alcohol (by excessive please understand any amount above the supported by HLB balance). (3) high amounts of proteins and/or aminoacids, (4) surfactants present in raw material emulsions/microemulsions (to make them dispersible or solluble in water)… and some other, but most of times these are the reasons why.

First of all: calculate your HLB required and balance your emulsifiers after that. Then you may change some raw materials or add others. Glycerin helps descreasing foam. If you keep trying without much success try suggesting your formula as an aerosol (or any similar) mousse, instead of a regular cream or lotion. If your products is already foamy when applied, no one will care if it still is foamy during application. That’s not a joke. I do mean it.

[Gustavo]

Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine is indeed a great option! And in this way there’s also behenamidopropyl dimethylamine. But I know some people have issues with recristalization after processing and during stability. 

[Gustavo]

That’s why we’re cosmetic chemists and not designers. LOL

[Gustavo]

Try one of these:

Grapeseed oil (cheap and useful)

Mando oil

Shea oil (lipex shealight)

If you’re using silicones, don’t add more than 30% of oils. It’ll be tacky anyhow. Some non-silicone to use as solvents are C12-15 alkyl benzoate and other esters you find useful. Try mixing them to achieve propper sensorial.

The best use of oils in hair care would be to maintain moisture inside. They’ll act as a barrier for water loss with is key for curly hair. Not necessary cortex action to improve curly definition.

[Gustavo]

Oh! And once you’re not using SLES, try adding Behentrimonium Chloride to your formula. It suits well with sulfate free formulations. There’s a professional hair care brand that uses it.

[Gustavo]

N-Hance is awesome. There’s also Ecosmooth 100 and Ecosmooth Satin which help the use of conditioning agents.

But if you want more conditioning that that, try increasing Amodimethicone above 1% active matter (that would mean at leat 3% of its macroemulsion).

[Gustavo]

Thanks @chemicalmatt! I wouldn’t dare to say I’m schooled in film pliability. Before this project I only worked with PVP for a traditional (and old fashioned) hair styling gel. Most of my work it’s been on natural look. And I’ve been trying to test those polymers in low concentrations in order to get slightly fix without looking like styled. Brazilian women are terrible in that point. It’s been a great challenge though.

In your respect I won’t mention local temperature in Rio. But yes, it’s way warmer than Chicago.

[Gustavo]

Hi Ayla, i’m used to conditioning shampoos. Consumers will only believe your shampoo is actual conditioning if it is white or nacré and if its viscosity is above usual (we’ve found out that Brazilian consumers preffer viscosities starting from 4500 cP.

Complementing what @Bobzchemist mentioned, in order to deposit the conditioners to hair you need a stable micelle of surfactants and that is quite hard to obtain without SLES. I would use cationic guar and/or polyquaternium-10 (or polyquaternium-47) AND dimethicone AND amodimethicone. All of them in low concentration.

To assure a little foam you could try using Sodium Lauroyl Sacosinate or Sodium cocoyl alalinate or Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate.

I usually start with high concentrations of all “results-driven ingredients” (that’s how I call the ingredients used to provide the main result expected by consumers in a given formula) and once I have a positive evaluation I start to adjust their concentration (you may understand that as reducing concentration. 

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