[Gunther]

Crothix

[Gunther]

You can read the study:

Persistence of coronaviruses on inanimate surfaces and their inactivation with biocidal agents

[Gunther]

Belassi said:

Benzalkonium chloride can replace the H2O2 with the same efficacy.

Well, according to some studies it ain’t as effective
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

[Gunther]

Oh yes, it’s very effective against the coronavirus.
Just don’t drink it. It’s not effective that way.

[Gunther]

5% might be too little for BTMS 25 (but ok for BTMS-50)
double that to 8-10%

Does BTMS-25 already contains a fatty alcohol?

[Gunther]

Where did you get the formula from?
There’s no room for innovation for hospital products (at least for small manufacturers), so stick to proven formulas.

Also, if I’m not mistaken, hospital products are often sterile filtered.

[Gunther]

jenchemist said:

Help! I (like everyone else) am trying to formulate a clear gel hand sanitizer and have no access to the carbomer 940 that we typically use. I’ve received a sample of a replacement called MaxxThix PC-10 (30% 2-propenoic acid, 2-methyl-, polymer with ethyl 2 propenoate and 70% water)

I’m neutralizing with 99% TEA. Formula is supposed to thicken at pH 9 but I’ve added loads more TEA than the vendor recommends and can’t get my formula to thicken. Any suggestions? I’m going to try swapping out some water for glycerin.

Formula:
67% of 93% pure IPA
25% water
2% nonionic surfactant
1% fragrance
3.1% MaxxThix (as recommended by vendor)
1.9% TEA

You can try reducing or removing the alcohol to see if it’s the excess alcohol what prevents it from thickening.

You should also try without the nonionic surfactant as it can interfere too.

[Gunther]

Most cosmetics aren’t selling well.
The economy is in a depression, no, not just a recession.

[Gunther]

86% EtOH @70% will yield 60.2% total alcohol

That’s a bit low as studies show that 70 to 85% alcohol work better
And even that fails to kill all bacteria or destroy some viruses

https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4623738/
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/rlae/v21n2/0104-1169-rlae-21-02-0618.pdf

[Gunther]

I believe that if soap works, then Polysorbate works even better while being milder.
There are some studies that show that Polysorbates have some antibacterial activity. Possibly effective against some viruses too.

[Gunther]

I got good results with ethoxylated lauryl alcohol, but the resulting emulsion ain’t clear.

I got a feeling that car shampoos benefit from cationics so I’ll try adding some CETAC to see if it improves wax deposition or shine somehow.

[Gunther]

IMO you can charge more if you include supplier contacts and cost estimates with your formula.

[Gunther]

Drop the 1% citric acid and test its pH.
Remove the biotin+keratin+vit C
Remove the stearic acid and add more fatty alcohols if needed.

Cetrimonium or BTMS won’t really emulsify silicones in water thin products.
So you’d better add a ready made silicone emulsion, or a water soluble silicone.

[Gunther]

I added
0.1% Polyox (PEG-90M)
1% Glycerin
to a detangling shampoo and everything worked fine. Maybe you can try reducing glycerin a bit more so it doesn’t affect viscosity or foam.

I have only used Polyox in rinse off products.
What’s your experience using it in leave-on products (like hair waxes)?

[Gunther]

IMO too little emulsifier and too much oils (Caprylic/capric triglycerides and Isopropyl myristate).

If it’s intended for spray use, carbopol will thicken it too much so it won’t come out as a fine mist out of the spray nozzle.

[Gunther]

Scientific studies show that ethanol works as good as IPA, if not better. So there’s no reason to stick to IPA
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513254/

[Gunther]

Soap (saponified soap) feels harsh, so I don’t think it makes a good reference.
Mild non-sulfate formulations like Sarcosinate+CAPB feel better IMO and they make a great benchmark.

Sharply lower or remove alkanolamides as they can leave a sticky afterfeel IMO.

[Gunther]

Agate said:

Also be sure to use 70% ethanol as a bare minimum. Better and WHO-recommended is a concentration of 75-85%. High ethanol concentrations are especially important for virucidal action. Furthermore, ethanol is more effective against viruses than isopropyl alcohol. (“Ethanol, the most common alcohol ingredient, appears to be the most
effective against viruses; whereas, the propanols have a better
bactericidal activity than ethanol.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513254/)

Another advantage to using ABHS is that they are often less irritating to the hands. Excessive hand washing with soap and water can cause skin damage and increase the risk for infections. Drying hands with a towel removes pathogens first by friction during rubbing with the drying material and then by wicking away the moisture into that material. The CDC recommends the use of alcohol-based hand rubs containing various emollients and other skin conditioners instead of irritating soaps and detergents as a strategy to reduce skin damage, dryness, and irritation. Damage to the skin can change the skin flora, resulting in more frequent colonization by staphylococci and gram-negative bacilli. Irritant contact dermatitis was lowest with well-formulated, alcohol-based hand rubs containing emollients and other skin conditioners when compared to other methods of hand hygiene according to several studies. This is especially true for healthcare workers, who may wash their hands more than 30 times per shift. Nevertheless, it is recognized that even products containing emollients along with the alcohol may cause a momentary stinging sensation if there are any cuts or abrasions present on the hands. Allergic contact dermatitis associated with alcohol-based hand rubs is uncommon.[2][9][10]

[Gunther]

Check your water electrical conductivity.
While some electrolytes might be OK in conditioner emulsions, tap water also contains Chlorine and other unintended substances.

[Gunther]

- Try different surfactants as previously stated.
- Add silicones, most preferably quaternized silicones.
- Add a quaternary compound to aid in silicone deposition. Polyquaternium-10 works great and it has scientific studies to backup its silicone deposition efficiency. 
Cationic guar gum might do the same, but you’ll need to Google studies to see if it does.
- Drop the glycerin, GMS, DHA and Sodium phytate.
- Add a solubilizer for Essential Oil, or better yet, switch to a synthetic fragrance.

[Gunther]

Industrial tanks should have some welded-in, protuding, volume marks
You just add some extra water to top it off, so the volume mark is just beneath the liquid surface.

[Gunther]

Belassi said:

Yes. It’s a carbomer cream. First thing I copied, 8 years ago. Evelyn & Crabtree hand cream with organic shea. 
940 gives a sensorial pretty much indistinguishable from the original.

How do carbomer creams compare to those with a proper emulsifier?

[Gunther]

I agree.
Pump hairsprays are 95%+ alcohol and they don’t seem to damage hair.

[Gunther]

IMO Cetearyl alcohol feels more “draggy” than cetyl does.
You can make cetearyl alcohol yourself if you can find cetyl and stearyl alcohol.

Some say behenyl alcohols feels even better and leaves a powdery-like residue but I haven’t tried it.

[Gunther]

Agree.
They have too little time to act on hair to do anything noticeable.
They’ll just end up being rinsed down the drain.

For shampoos you only can:
1. Use less or milder surfactants so they don’t strip as much oils from hair.
2. Add polyquaterniums or even cationics (for non anionic surfactants) to detangle and condition hair.
3. Add silicones.