Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Carbomer substitute?? (MaxxThix PC-10)

  • Carbomer substitute?? (MaxxThix PC-10)

    Posted by jenchemist on April 9, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    Help! I (like everyone else) am trying to formulate a clear gel hand sanitizer and have no access to the carbomer 940 that we typically use. I’ve received a sample of a replacement called MaxxThix PC-10 (30% 2-propenoic acid, 2-methyl-, polymer with ethyl 2 propenoate and 70% water)

    I’m neutralizing with 99% TEA. Formula is supposed to thicken at pH 9 but I’ve added loads more TEA than the vendor recommends and can’t get my formula to thicken. Any suggestions? I’m going to try swapping out some water for glycerin.

    Formula:
    67% of 93% pure IPA
    25% water
    2% nonionic surfactant
    1% fragrance
    3.1% MaxxThix (as recommended by vendor)
    1.9% TEA

    Lucas replied 3 years, 12 months ago 7 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • Anonymous

    Guest
    April 10, 2020 at 7:09 am

    I’ve been using Aristoflex AVC. It’s preneutralized so you don’t have to add additional chemicals to make it gel. It blends nicely if you prehydrate it with water. It breaks nicely on the skin. I’ve made several batches up 80% Ethyl v/v. 

    For each pint of sanitizer I’ve only needed 3 grams of the Aristoflex. It’s a little thinner @ 80% ethyl, but not much. I would try to get your hands on some 200 proof Ethel. But IPA is fine. 
    I don’t add a lot of extras in my sanitizer. Just alcohol, vegetable glycerin, water and Aristoflex.
    The Aristoflex and about 7 ml of glycerin is all you need to keep your hands in good shape. As I mentioned, I prehydrate the Aristoflex with water and glycerin, then slowly add I the alcohol. Nice and clear every time.  
  • Anonymous

    Guest
    April 10, 2020 at 7:32 am

    Oh, and be carful about what you add. I stay away stuff like pure aloe and other that drops the PH. Besides, it’s really not needed. Check out the data sheet online. It spells out the do’s and don’ts. 

    I don’t know what you’re using for a fragrance. But you could substitute 3-5 % of the ethanol with Benzyl alcohol. That might add a pleasant scent. I don’t know, I haven’t tried that yet. I do know It’s not hard on the skin. Plus it doesn’t drop the PH level. 
  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    April 10, 2020 at 11:29 pm

    Aristoflex AVC indeed can thicken hydroalcoholic  gels. I tested it (out of curiosity) with 61%w/w ethanol and it gelled properly. The gel will be slightly cloudy because Aristoflex isn’t as clear as carbomers. It’s very sensitive to electrolytes.

  • klangridge

    Member
    April 14, 2020 at 3:35 pm

    MY company has jumped on the hand sanitiser bandwagon, and hasn’t had much success with thickening IPA-based formulations with carbomers - I find it’s challenging to dissolve them to start with! If you look at the market, they are generally used in ethanol-based formulations, so I wonder if they’re just incompatible.

    Just a thought - are you able to neutralise the carbomer in water before adding the IPA? As IPA itself won’t have a pH so I’m not sure how that will affect the neutralisation process. However it might then be too thick to do anything with… that’s probably what I would look at next, though.

  • alan123

    Member
    April 15, 2020 at 11:05 am

    Has anyone tried Cyclopentasiloxane, Dimethicone Crosspolymer or Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer

    I am formulating a face cream and I am using  Sodium Polyacrylate AND Dicaprylyl Carbonate AND Polyglyceryl-3 Caprate and it become unstable the next day after I am adding active ingredients.

  • klangridge

    Member
    April 15, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    @alan123 

    Can I suggest creating a new discussion for this? You might get some more helpful answers as it sounds like a different topic :)

  • gunther

    Member
    April 15, 2020 at 8:54 pm

    Help! I (like everyone else) am trying to formulate a clear gel hand sanitizer and have no access to the carbomer 940 that we typically use. I’ve received a sample of a replacement called MaxxThix PC-10 (30% 2-propenoic acid, 2-methyl-, polymer with ethyl 2 propenoate and 70% water)

    I’m neutralizing with 99% TEA. Formula is supposed to thicken at pH 9 but I’ve added loads more TEA than the vendor recommends and can’t get my formula to thicken. Any suggestions? I’m going to try swapping out some water for glycerin.

    Formula:
    67% of 93% pure IPA
    25% water
    2% nonionic surfactant
    1% fragrance
    3.1% MaxxThix (as recommended by vendor)
    1.9% TEA

    You can try reducing or removing the alcohol to see if it’s the excess alcohol what prevents it from thickening.

    You should also try without the nonionic surfactant as it can interfere too.

  • bill_toge

    Member
    April 16, 2020 at 7:43 pm

    speaking from bitter experience, IPA is a notoriously difficult solvent to thicken, as almost nothing polymeric can dissolve in it

  • Lucas

    Member
    April 16, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    You might want to try increasing the MaxxThix PC-10 to 5% to 6%, then working your way back down if you find it to be too thick. I am finding that some of these 30% polymer solutions don’t thicken in ethanol/IPA formulas nearly as efficiently as carbomers. 

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