Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating BTMS conditioner problem

  • BTMS conditioner problem

    Posted by Abdullah on April 18, 2020 at 6:17 am

    I am trying to make a conditioner with BTMS buy it separates after 5 minutes and doesn’t stay stable.

    What is the problem and what to do

    BTMS 25   %5
    GMS   %2
    Olive oil %3 

    Water    to %100
    Sodium phytate  %0.2
    Benzyl alcohol and dehydro acetic acid   %1
    Lavender essential oil %1
    Citric acid
    pH 5

    I first mixed BTMS, GMS, olive oil and heated, then added to heated water. High shear mixed for 5 minutes and cooled down. Then added the preservative and essential oil and adjust the pH to 5.

    Anonymous replied 4 years ago 3 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • Gunther

    April 18, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    5% might be too little for BTMS 25 (but ok for BTMS-50)
    double that to 8-10%

    Does BTMS-25 already contains a fatty alcohol?

  • ngarayeva001

    April 18, 2020 at 4:49 pm

    I think they all contain cetyl alcohol. I use 10% of BTMS-25 and don’t add any cetyl alcohol (I might add myristyl myristate if I want a thicker consistency)

  • ngarayeva001

    April 18, 2020 at 4:58 pm

    INCI %
    Aqua 67.0%
    Euxyl k701 1.0%
    Disodium EDTA 0.1%
    wheat protein
    Glycerin 2.0%
    BTMS-25 10.0%
    Myristyl Myristate 4.0%
    Ceteareth-25 2.0%
    IPM 0.5%
    Germaben II 1.0%
    Cyclopentasiloxane 5.0%
    Amodimethicone 2.0%
    Quaternium 80 1.0%
    Fragrance 0.5%
    Cetrimonium Chloride 0.9%

    This one is more like a mask. You can use it as a starting point.

  • Abdullah

    April 19, 2020 at 1:24 am

    @Gunther yes it is %75 cetearyl alcohol. 

    @ngarayeva001 your formula has many emulsifiers. BTMS %10 which is the highest %of use, ceteareth-25, Myristyl Myristate,Quaternium 80. They are all emulsifiers and co emulsifiers.

    Can BTMS be used as emulsifier without another emulsifier? 

  • ngarayeva001

    April 19, 2020 at 6:32 am

    There are btms, ceteareth 25 and cetrimonium chloride, others aren’t emulsifiers. It’s an old formula and I’ve being changing it. It will work without cetrimonium chloride. Quaternium 80 is my recent discovery and this formula have been working without it before. What I suggest keeping   is ceteareth. (I tried both 20 and 25 don’t see the difference for this product). You can try another non-ionic emulsifier.

  • Anonymous

    April 20, 2020 at 4:36 pm
    First, is the GMS a self-emulsifying type with sodium or potassium stearate? Because I’ve made that mistake. If so, there’s nothing that’ll make it work with BTMS.
    Have you checked the pH of the water phase before emulsification?
    Sodium phytate looks to have quite a high pH in solution, and you don’t have anything else in your water phase. It might be enough to destabilize this emulsion at that high of a usage amount with nothing else in the water phase, along with adding 1% of a benzyl alcohol preservative and 1% essential oil. I’d make sure that the starting pH of the water phase by itself is under 7, just for 
    Especially since ngarayeva001 is correct about needing to use a higher percentage of BTMS-25. When adding any extra oils to it, it can get pretty fragile, and then adding the benzyl alcohol/DHA along with the high level of lavender oil at the end could push it over. The minimum amount of active BTMS I use if I’m not using another emulsifier with it is 2%, which would be 8% BTMS-25.
    In my experience with BTMS, 5 minutes of high shear would be a bit excessive. As long as you’re using enough of it to work, BTMS wants to emulsify, and it doesn’t really even need high shear to do so. I use a stick blender and when I’m making conditioner I only blend it for a couple of minutes to start, then let it rest for up to 10 minutes, then blend another 1-2 minutes. By this point it is usually getting thick.
    I also add water to oil, not oil to water. Especially with such a small oil phase where every gram is important. Though with nothing heat sensitive, and the forgiving nature of BTMS, it is not unheard of to heat the water and oil phases together.
    May I suggest that you try 8% BTMS-25, omit the GMS at least for now, maybe keep 1-2% olive oil if that’s important, lower the sodium phytate to 0.1% or use citric acid or another chelator instead if you have one, and since you aren’t using anything hard to preserve, lower the benzyl alcohol/DHA to 0.5 or 0.8%. 1% is pretty high for lavender essential oil, so you might want to see if you’re happy with less. I’d try 0.1-0.5% essential oil.
  • Abdullah

    April 21, 2020 at 3:58 am

    @justaerin thanks 

    . It is glyceryl stearate alone not the se.
    . I will replace GMS with cetearyl alcohol and see if it make any difference.
    . Yes sodium phytate increase the pH and i reduced it with citric acid to 5-6 before mixing. 
    . I will use %10 BTMS and see what it does. 
    . Do we need to add water to oil when the oil phase is very small? 

  • Anonymous

    April 21, 2020 at 11:20 pm
    @Abdullah You’re welcome.
    Using 10% BTMS makes for 7.5% cetearyl alcohol in the formula already, so I wouldn’t add more. BTMS-25 was, if I understand correctly, originally designed to be a complete oil phase by itself. So manufacturers could just add water, a little hyrdolized protein or glygerin or other claims active, preservative, and fragrance and have a complete product.
    In this case, you can add the oil to the water or the water to the oil, or even heat them up together. I prefer to add a big water phase to a small oil phase because otherwise I end up losing too much of my oil phase, but that is entirely my own preference.

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