[Gunther]

ngarayeva001 said:

Duophased makeup removers with Cyclomethicone usually look like this:

INCI	%
Aqua	44.35%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.20%
Butylene Glycol	3.00%
Sodium Chloride	1.25%
Germaben	1.0%
C12-15 alkyl benzoate	2.00%
Cyclomethicone	48.00%
Bisabolol	0.20%

 
This is a liquid product that should be shaken and then applied using a cotton pad. You don’t need to rinse it off.

Both of the products use oil to dissolve makeup. Cyclomethicone can be considered oil for the sake of this discussion.

What prevents the 48% cyclomethicone from separating?
Is 2% C12-C15 alkyl benzoate enough for that?

[Gunther]

Lots of big brand shampoos use glycol distearate to suspend silicones.

I have Euperlan PK771 pearlizer in the lab and it contains glycol distearate
Sodium Laureth Sulfate (and) Glycol Distearate (and) Cocamide MEA (and) Laureth-10
https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare/Detail/804/34189/Euperlan-PK-771-Benz
I’ll do some experimenting to see if it actually helps suspend silicones (and add a pearlized look in the process).

Herbal essences curvas peligrosas shampoo (made in Mexico)
Aqua, Sodium laureth sulfate, Sodium lauryl sulfate, GLYCOL DISTEARATE, DIMETHICONE,  Sodium citrate, cocamide MEA, Sodium xylenesulfonate, cocamidopropylbetaine, parfum, citric acid, Sodium benzoate, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chlorid, Sodium chloride, tetrasodium EDTA, hexyl cinnamal, butylphenyl methylpropional, zea mays silk extract, prunus serotina fruit extract, orchid extract, CI 42090, CI17200, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone.
https://herbalessences.com.mx/es-mx/comprar/colecciones/curvas-peligrosas/herbal-essences-shampoo-para-pelo-curvas-peligrosas

Sedal liso perfecto shampoo (also made in Mexico)
Aqua, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Chloride, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Glycerin, DIMETHICONOL, Parfum, GLYCOL DISTEARATE, Carbomer, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Cocamide Mea, Disodium Edta, Mica, Titanium Dioxide, Dmdm Hydantoin, Peg-45m, Paraffinum Liquidum, Arginine, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Benzyl Benzoate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Sodium Hydroxide, Citric Acid. 

https://www.sedal.com.mx/productos/shampoo-2-en-1/rizos-definidos-shampoo-2-en-1.html

[Gunther]

You can’t decide to skip preservatives based on water activity alone, only microbial challenge testing can determine that.
You can add some water mist, microbial challenge tests.

[Gunther]

Some table salt contains tiny grains of sand that will look ugly in cosmetic products.
Better to stick to USP grade.

[Gunther]

Belassi said:

Why would you want to destroy the foaming capability by adding dimethicone?

Because of silicones adding lubricity, shine, a protectant hair coating.
Many big brands use silicones so they can’t be that bad.

Vnnil said:

Unless you have very specific reasons to develop an emulsifying system by yourself, I would recommend using the silicone emulsions already present on the market. Many can be incorporated in shampoos and are very easy to use.

Also, take a look at polymers like Carbopol SF, which can aid in the stabilization of silicones in anionic surfactants systems.

ngarayeva001 said:

Some surfactants are ‘stronger emulsifiers’ than others. For example olefin sulfonate has relatively good emulsification properties. But you will actually reduce foam. Is PEG-8 dimethicone an option?

Right now I’m debating on placing a special order on a water soluble/dispersible silicone, vs a placing a special order on a silicone-specific emulsifier.

[Gunther]

It also mentions using
-stearic monoethanolamide, stearic diethanolamide, stearic monoisopropanolamide and stearic monoethanolamide stearate. 
- N,N-dihydrocarbyl amido benzoic acid and soluble salts thereof (e.g., Na and K salts), particularly N,N-di(hydrogenated) C16, C18 and tallow amido benzoic acid species of this family, which are commercially available from Stepan Company
-  stearyl dimethyl amine oxide
-  xanthan gum at concentrations ranging from about 0.3% to about 3%, preferably from about 0.4% to about 1.2%, by weight

What do you guys have tried?
Thanks in advance.

[Gunther]

At the end only stability testing can tell if the emulsion will hold,
but you have 11% total oils (rosehip, jojoba and triglyceride) which may be too much for polysorbate 20.

You can:
1 lower oils a bit
2 but a premade emulsifier (read the specs, some of them contain polysorbates plus other substances)
3 increase polysorbate even more, but that can make it sticky.

[Gunther]

Behenyl alcohol?
But that still needs melting so I don’t know if that fulfills your cold process requirement.

[Gunther]

Vaseline and paraffin oil are mixtures, not single substances
so their composition, thus viscosity is likely different than the one you are using.

Try with other grades or suppliers.

[Gunther]

You are missing a proper emulsifier, so lanolin and vaselin separate and sit on top of water.

[Gunther]

Dynamin said:

ngarayeva001 said:

The Ordinary use DMI in many of their products. But in many cases you don’t really need the product to penetrate deep. It really depends on your actives and the formula in general. “Propylene glycol doesnt work, its not strong enough” is a blanket statement.

Actually, my solution has to penetrate into the papilla of the hair follicle

Then you can look into Minoxidil formulations.
Most comprise ethyl alcohol and propylene glycol.

[Gunther]

Real deionized water is expensive, and unneeded for cosmetics as it will readily absorb atmosphere gases like Oxygen or CO2 and reverts to lower quality water.

Demineralized or distilled water is much cheaper.
If the equipment is too expensive for you to purchase, you can find a local supplier and rent a truck that carries (clean) tanks or drums for refill to their facility, as the container cost can quickly add up.

[Gunther]

You’d better start by purchasing a commercial formulation to see what it feels like.
Then reverse engineer it if you like it.

[Gunther]

MurtazaHakim said:

Which colorants are we supposed to use actually in manufacturing these liquid handsoaps,dish-wash and disinfectants ???

Find a commercial product with a similar hue that you like and read the label.
Approved colors names usually begin with FD&C, and end in a mumber
i.e. FD&C Blue No.1
But make sure you check the latest regulations, since some of them have been restricted to certain %, or banned.

IMO stay away from natural, vegetable based colors. They aren’t designed to last too long since food usually rottens much faster than cosmetics, even with preservatives.

If you still decide to stick with natural colorants, you’ll need to conduct a lot of stability tests, and check for batch to batch consinstency.
There’s no way around a lot of testing.

[Gunther]

A custom domain name, with an existing website instead of Gmail would be a great start.

[Gunther]

Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Maybe you could try Sodium Lauryl Sarcosinate? some say it is the second best to SLS. They are from two totally different sources. Sarcosinate is derived from coconuts. I use it but nothing works as good as SLS. Oh well that is the pay off. Hope this helps.

May I ask what do you usually use to thicken Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate?

[Gunther]

Most oily/waxy substances will work as fixatives by delaying the evaporation of the fragrance more volatile compounds (notes), thus preventing them from reaching the nose.

IMO there ain’t much you can do besides increasing essential oils %, adding some synthetic fragrances, or switching to less oily formulations.

[Gunther]

It depends on formula complexity, and what stability tests will the formulator do.
Even so, you may find with an “as is” formula, so you can’t sue in case the formula becomes unstable in a couple years, but it doesn’t show in accelerated testing.

[Gunther]

If I’m not mistaken, BTMS-50 is self emulsifying so yes, you can mix everything together, warm and stir. Just add the volatiles (i.e. cyclomethicone) at the end so they don’t evaporate as much.

Personally, I like to warm water to a near boil before adding anything

[Gunther]

I believe citric acid displaces the weaker EDTA acid,
so tetrasodium becomes disodium EDTA at lower pH levels.

[Gunther]

I’m curious about it.
No amount of centrifugation should make true solutions form precipitates.
But I guess that precipitation may well happen with emulsions.

If you have a lab centrifuge handy, you can start by testing commercial formulations by centrifuging for 2, 5, 7 ,10 minutes and so on.
Keep us posted with the results.

[Gunther]

Way too much oils, glycols and fatty alcohols
they prevent PVP from developing proper hold.

Just water + 3% PVP can provide decent hold.
Add some alcohol as desired for quicker drying.
Lower the afore mentioned ingredients to claim levels.

[Gunther]

You need to both heat it to melt, and stir it for some time
otherwise the water insoluble molten stearic acid may form a layer over water+lye.

You can also neutralize it with Sodium carbonate which is safer to handle than lye.

[Gunther]

Also, ethyl alcohol smells much less than IPA does, and it’s usually less drying.

[Gunther]

Oils usually just hinder cleaning and don’t add much emollient activity to cleansing formulations.

Bath bombs need to be bone dry, otherwise citric acid begins reacting with baking soda. So your emulsifier needs to be bone dry too.
I was thinking Polysugamulse D9 as it quickly solubilizes oils, but it’s only 65-68% solids, so it contains water.
http://www.colonialchem.com/fullpanel/uploads/files/poly%20sugamulse%20d9.pdf

IMO you can drop oils/waxes to claims ingredients levels, and try a “water soluble oil”, i.e. PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate
even so you’d need to conduct lots of stability tests to make sure the water soluble oils don’t make the bombs brittle or unstable.
Best of luck.