Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Paprik said:Crack up guys … crack up
Ok…Ok…
” If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? “
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Pharma said:Graillotion said:…and seeing L-Proline and several natural sources of palmitic acid….and wondering…have I accidently back doored (or been carefully steered) my way into something very similar to pseudo ceramides?…If you found a back door which nobody noticed until now, you certainly get rich
Hey you have to let the dreamers dream. If we just all keep our heads down and accept the status quo… Well we have a stagnant industry. I came from an industry that was so heavily regulated…it was nearly impossible to develop new products. It was only the dreamers…searching out the synergies of existing materials…that created anything new. (And sometimes a lower IQ helped…because they could not grasp the perceived limitations
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Pharma said:Graillotion said:…and seeing L-Proline and several natural sources of palmitic acid….and wondering…have I accidently back doored (or been carefully steered) my way into something very similar to pseudo ceramides?…However, I told you over and over that you should try ceramides or similar… I’ve even tried to reach your bank clerk to convince her to grant you a second mortgage on your house so you could affort them.
Hehehe….the only ceramide sample I have…is in a box of mac-nuts…on the way to Zurich.
:smiley: -
I’ll wait for the Swiss response….if this can effectively be pieced together.
(At a much lower price.) -
OMG…it is 72 baht per gram! (before shipping)
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jemolian said:Have you tried purchasing from a repacker? I saw this Thai repacker selling it (just yesterday. If not i would have mentioned it earlier).
Thank you! Are they a reputable vendor?
I had searched for a US repacker, but I believe there are none.
I’ll have to see how that prices out with shipping!
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My chemist said….Nope. So I use the cheaper one at 2%…at a pH around 4.7-4.8…and no issues.
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pH options for (Face) cream with Niacinamide. — Cosmetic Science Talk (chemistscorner.com)
There is a search bar on the top right corner…. Type ‘Niacinamide’ and hit ‘GO’.
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RedCoast said:Graillotion said:I have been looking at PCA…but it likes to interfere with other ingredients I like to use.When I first started formulating, I used sodium PCA in high concentrations… but I didn’t realize that it was an electrolyte, and not all emulsifiers and thickeners tolerate electrolytes. So that led to some interesting failures.Montanov 82 is resistant to electrolytes, but you might have a harder time finding other cost-effective ones based on where you live.
I find it hard to live without Aristoflex AVC…. so that is where my issues lie. I am going to try and find a suitable sub with some Proline, and Xylitol, and tweaking what I already have…. I think the Swiss will have me increase the betaine as well.
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Abdullah said:For me only 6% shea butter is more than what i want on my skin. How do you guys like such high amount of oil face?
WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much for me…but they didn’t ask about that.
In my richest body product…I use 3% butters, albeit nicer feeling ones than shea. In lighter products for face and hands…I don’t go above 1% butters….and only lite oils. I’m sure you saw all that heavy avo oil as well…I figured it was some kinda eczema lotion.
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RedCoast said:The only amino acids I’ve seen with any sort of data on barrier repair are:
- Proline
- Arginine
- Glycine
However, some of these were amino acid derivatives (especially trimethylglycine) and applied in fairly high concentrations, like 2% or more. But these kinds of studies are very scarce.
There are glycine derivatives (like capryloyl glycine) that is used to enhance preservation.Amino acids in cosmetics are mostly claims ingredients. I often see smaller cosmetic brands using the Prodew series. If you scrutinize the Prodew data, betaine and sodium PCA are doing most of the humectant/moisturizing effects, because many of those amino acids in those blends are in trace amounts.Slowly but surely, I’m seeing arginine as a pH adjuster in some AHA serums, because now there’s the misconception that sodium hydroxide is dangerous for your skin. There’s a certain highly misinformed and shady skinfluencer you can thank for that.There is some interest in arginine in diabetic foot creams… arginine is a precursor to urea, and that amino acid (topically applied) supposedly increases blood flow in diabetic skin, but there’s not much hard data to support that.Now, for moisturizing effects… no one is really sure if they’re better/superior than other humectants, like glycerin. However, trimethylglycine (betaine) and some other amino acids don’t feel as sticky or tacky as glycerin, so I occasionally see them as supplementary humectants to “high humectant” blends. I can also confirm, via basic experiments, that trimethylglycine feels better on the skin than glycerin.Thank you.
I already use betaine in everything (at those higher rates)….so that is what gives my products part of their package.
I have been looking at PCA…but it likes to interfere with other ingredients I like to use.
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What amino acids have a place in skin care? Which have some data to back-up their claimed benefits?
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So many schools of thought here….but taking it just below 5…sure has some preservation advantages. Otherwise, not a bad pH.
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DaveStone said:LOL, true. But isn’t Retinol highly valued around here? I haven’t read anyone put down Niancimide either.
I think Niacinamide has a reasonably warm welcome here among many. The reason it is not discussed might simply be, it is widely accepted, like glycerin, so no need. Just look at most of the formulas posted…it is common place.
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You never mention pH?
If want a chemist answer…you have to give all the pieces to the puzzle.
Typically a formula like that…will need the pH lowered. If you purchase an acid to do that….choose lactic. Oh…and ‘heat and hold’? Just smiling.
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I think you’ll find that an emulsion that looks like ‘tomato bisque’….Might be a hard sell.
Sorry…I really enjoy your questions….cause I absolutely went down your road… two years ago.
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Microformulation said:
Hope you all are reading the first line in the description….great for self tanning products…..uummmm…yeah that means it will color your skin.
Reminds me of a girl in high school….ONLY ate carrots….and you guessed it…literally turned orange.
Also later on….under ‘odor’… When they say characteristic…hehehe…sometimes that mean nothing….sometimes that means run and hide.
Looks like a really good candidate for that magic number, .1% and 99.9% story!
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Oh good!
Just a note on polymerics…if you put them in the oil phase…they do not do their thing until they meet up with the water phase.
Wouldn’t hurt to increase you emulsifier…you have 20% natural oils! Rather than add just more 165… Consider adding a complementary co-emulsifier like GSC at .75% and keep the Zen. That is the backbone of all my lotions.
Glyceryl Stearate Citrate-EMF-GLYCSTEACIT-01 (makingcosmetics.com)
Don’t let the similar sounding words lead you to believe you already have this base covered.
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I think your formula rotted…not became unstable! There is no preservative, hope you are ok.
Zen can be added to either phase. At those low amounts water phase is fine. In higher amounts I like it in oil phase, cus I have never liked working with thick water…just a personal preference.
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Been around forever…
They just dust off the flavor of the month….Buriti Oil - Virgin (bulknaturaloils.com)
Don’t chase the hype….it will be out of date before you ever get a product created…. Make you own way… Set the trend…don’t follow.
Create functional quality products…and the world will beat a path to your door…(as long as you have a good story)
Wait till you see the color….and it carries an odor.
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DaveStone said:What are the scientifically supported anti-aging ingredients (if there are any)?
Genetics.
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SaraLee said:Thanks so much for all the feedback everyone! What are your thoughts then of combining GSC with glyceryl stearate or GS SE (and would one be better than the other) and dropping the coco glucoside?
I have a torture chamber I keep of all the emulsifiers I’ve tested the past couple years. There are only two….that still sit in that sunny window from couple of years ago. One of them featured GSC.
It is called Heliofeel.
INCI: Glyceryl Stearate Citrate (and) Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate (and) Hydrogenated Lecithin
The second item in that inci…is pretty salty as well. -
I like L and 202….and dislike 68. These comments based on stability first, and texture second. However I would not use either by themselves. GSC is a good supporting emulsifier with them. There is another common anionic you can use….but I hated what it did to overall texture.
I know you won’t use 165…. But I use 202 at 3%, 165 at 1%, and GSC between .5-.75%…(and the proverbial Aristoflex AVC + Carbomer enhancer) and it makes a H#@ of a nice product….granted I use a ton of additional enhancers.
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DaveStone said:Like that garlic oil can hinder baldness.
Don’t forget…repels vampires!
FAIR….where did to get the perception that cosmetic companies were working to make the world a more FAIR place to live.
Last time I checked….they will still trying to make a buck.
I work with one of the chemist on this forum, to make a product with some function from natural resources. We can NOT buy these ingredients….I have to MAKE them. That should tell you something in regards to the potency of what is offered.
And yes, in this industry, .1% is a really common number. Memorize it.
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Were you looking to buy that….or make it?
As far as I can tell…it would be lacking in things that would make it feel nice…texturizers. Kinda a mommy blogger formula…with lots of unproven additives.
Based on some of the choices they made….I would not trust it to touch my skin….and probably why I make all my own stuff.