Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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I second Jedwards for West Coast….and depending on quantity desired…there is always Lotioncrafters (for very small amounts).
Granted…pretty much East Coast…but FSS has good service…if you don’t need it the same week…. And if willing to look to the North… NDA is always incredible.
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ProfessorHerb said:still smells like cupuacu after adding strong essential oils. How do I either work with the scent or cover it entirely?
Sounds like you’re working with the bottom of the barrel….with ingredient suppliers. As mentioned above…get refined stuff. The stuff with the smoke scent…and dirt grime from the processing camps in the Amazon is for mommy bloggers. I have gotten some material from FSS that was nice….but the REALLY REALLY nice stuff….of course comes from ICSC, Denmark. Completely without odor.
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What is the preservative used?
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I also use it at up to 2% with no negative texture. Consider changing suppliers.
You did not list the tool you are incorporating it with.
If you want a finer textured starch…look at rice starch.
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Have you considered building a better emulsion?
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Agree with Perry… alcohol has been around for thousands of years…and cosmetics I think tracked back as much….and don’t believe the two are good companions…as alcohol is drying, and creams and lotions are generally created to moisturize. I would kinda compare it to using a hand sanitizer….as a face cream…. Not gonna be a big market for that.
Aloha.
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First things first…. No preservative! (And don’t say leucidal.)
Can you define peeling? Your skin is peeling…or the product is flaking off your skin?
How do you expect water and oil to mix….without an emulsifier?
What form is the Vit A?
What is the pH?
What is it supposed to do?
Sorry….but being frank…this looks far more like a shopping list from a repacker …. than a formula.
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Pharma said:Distarch phosphate is probably the starch phosphate you sent me… *cough-cough*Cosmetic names can be confusing or misleading.
Hehe….not exactly… I know I sent Hydroxypropyl starch phosphate, which is water soluble…which was a pilling devil for me. (How similar…will these be?)
I may have also sent the Greensil, bamboo silica powder….which now…is of interest to me again. Hehehe. I’ll have to look through my vast collection of those type things.
I did get notification today from Glenncorp…that they were processing my request for the distarch phosphate.
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Rice and potato….those seem to be opposite ends of the particle size spectrum in starches…..so I can conclude…it is not size that matters?
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chemicalmatt said:I’ve discovered in my research on rice starch that is was shown - as was potato starch - to stabilize urea solutions at that pH too. The research paper mentioned that as a side note not as a breakthrough idea. Upon reading this the little light bulb went off inside my head: another means of stabilizing urea, how cool is that!. Since then I’ve formulated 20% urea creams using the classic lactate buffer approach backed up by 3.0% rice starch and have seen nothing but success. @Graillotion is exhibiting the same romance with triethyl citrate that I have. I think I’ve enabled her and perhaps an intervention may be needed.
I am not sure where I will end up…in my search for the ‘grail’ of starch type products, and I do like to have only one ingredient per category if possible (except emollients…then things really go off the rails)…but would you say that the distarch phosphates would do the same thing as the native starches, in regard to urea stability?
Oh…and for the record…. Graillotion…is a ‘He’.
🙂 Don’t let my flower breeding put me in a box! My latest creation.
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I did try ordering the samples again….through Glenn Corp.
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On my casual glance at numerous mfg formulas….a common inclusion rate is .2 to .3%
As TEC is a nice ingredient, and even quasi emollient, I think you can’t go wrong with it. I have a cream where I use it at an astonishing 5%. (5% rate is not intended as a buffer.)
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I use Niacinamide in formulas one formula that is 4.4 and several that are 4.8. Of course, it works fine there..) As Mark said…use the cheap one.
All these re-packer sites that have that higher pH thingy…was just mommy bloggers reading technical papers, and not understanding the results (like using a strong acid….and the fact that cosmetics are typically not stored at high heat, or kept for 1,000 days…etc.) Just grin….next time you read that.
A quote from Lab Muffin:
Vitamin C is compatible with most things. The only true incompatibilities I can think of are copper ions (e.g. any of those blue copper products) and benzoyl peroxide – both of these will inactivate ascorbic acid.
It’s a myth that you can’t use niacinamide with ascorbic acid (Kind of Stephen has debunked this thoroughly on his blog).
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Bingo… @MarkBroussard is spot on…if they even mention preservation, then they are HIGHLY inclined to spike it.
The INCI’s are irrelevant as none of the guilty parties have EVER listed their transgressions on the INCI.
The only thing I can hope for in a supplier with integrity, and the less they promise, the more likely I am to find what I am after.
Thank you, Mark, for the list of suppliers, I will look into them.
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@Karo_lina that was from ULP, if you are not a member, the links won’t open for you.
But try this: Ashland | optiphen™ plus preservative
Any google search of opiphen plus will give you the same information….the working pH range.
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Newtoformulating said:Ok. My main preservative is optiphen plus and one of my ingredients has a preservative within it, Benzoic Acid. Thanks for responding
The Optiphen plus needs a pH below 6 for all aspects to function.
The preservatives included in ingredients, only preserve that product prior to blending. In this case, it also has no effect at the new higher pH.
So, you are only using Phenoxyethanol, and Caprylyl Glycol. I think most here would believe that to be a bit of a weak system.
If you want the acid aspect to kick in…you need to lower your pH below 6. (And this is a VERY good thing.)
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Microformulation said:Wow, did I warp back to 2005?Back then there were GSE extracts that were “certified” to be pure and “free” from the adulterants. Lines would demand to use this form and the PET tests all failed.In the almost 2 decades since then, the Raw Material providers have stepped up and provided so many better alternatives which are more effective.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh…. PLEASE don’t think I am using this as a preservative… (I thought I had a tiny bit of respect here…but maybe I am wrong.
)Just want to try it in my deo formula.
Aloha… (And yes, a patent on that concept.)
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@Syl , it is well known that they add ingredients that will enhance the preservation qualities, so that those that think it is a viable natural preservative will not be disappointed. However, in trying to evade detection, they often use some less than desirable ingredients.
I am looking for pure GSE, and suspect it does not exist?
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Use the search bar, and enter the word ‘soaping’.
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What was the preservative….and how much did you use?
You need to provide lots of information with your question.
And yes, some preservatives can destabilize an emulsion. You should also include what you are emulsifier you are using.
What type of hardware did you use, to make the emulsion?
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Where did you get the suspect one? Suppliers have well known reputations.
Sounds like they colored it, and scented it…hehehe I know of one company…that is the mode of apprendi. -
Thank you all.
I have concluded the way forward is to blend behenyl with MM.
Aloha.
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I’m with Perry…just look at adding sodium PCA, or sodium lactate or glycerin, or propanediol…and a compatible gelling agent. I get good mileage out of betaine…and a soother to boot.
Of course, you have the option of adding it at .001%…whooping and hollering it on the label….and doing the dirty work with a functional.
Aloha.
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No mention of pH?
Are your clay’s irradiated?
Do you have a chelate? (I’ll be interested to hear what the chemist have to say…with clays and chelates.)
Following.
(Sounds like your chemist already knows how to solve the problem….except I would have but an ‘and’ between them, not a ‘or’.)