Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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helenhelen said:Graillotion said:I use electric ice cream makers. I am lazy (or smart).I have several sizes….they make tiny ones that are perfect for my 150 gram batches.
@Graillotion I love this idea!!
This is the one I use….perfect for 150-225 gram batches. Feels a little bit like a piece of junk…and I figured I’d get 10-20 uses out of it….but 100’s of uses later…she is still chugging.
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I use electric ice cream makers. I am lazy (or smart).
I have several sizes….they make tiny ones that are perfect for my 150 gram batches.
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I get my TEC here: Buy Triethyl Citrate (TEC) Online Store - Essential Natural Oils
You can get a pound for $15. Don’t think you’ll find it small pak…much cheaper. The perfumers try and tear your head off.
As far as using it in deo….in has to be part of a system…not just something you toss in…and hope for the best. As a simple illustration…it is citric acid held in reserve…and the idea is…it will release free citric acid as it is needed…keeping the pH in the pit low. Therefore…if you toss it in with high pH ingredients like baking soda (yuck), it would be counter intuitive. But an excellent building block in a low pH system.
Aloha.
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Why not use something better…without the smell? O-Cymen-5-Ol.
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GeorgeBenson said:@Graillotion oh no BA is not on the up and up?! That’s too bad. I think I get MCT oil from them. Very happy with jedwards and the others though.What is triethyl citrate exactly and what do you use it for?
A company like that won’t cheat of every oil…just the ones that are costly. It is easy to test….order something like Tamanu, or Black seed…something that clearly will have a color or smell or texture…and you can judge.
🙂 The beauty of soybean oil…is it is a very nice…and an overlooked oil…so the customers that get it will write rave reviews.
They are so bold…that they don’t even blend the oils…to try and give a hint of scent or color of the authentic oil.TEC??? Omg…can’t live without it. Quite the multifunctional…from fragrance fixer, to pH maintainer, emollient, solubilizer, to 2nd largest ingredient in my deo. (Triple ester of citric acid.) Might be easier to ask…what can’t it do?
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GeorgeBenson said:@Graillotion i believe i’ve come across the same shady seller, that seemed to have every oil and they were impossibly
cheap and would aways ship from india. Think I still have some of their stuff laying around. I also thought about getting their stuff tested but had no idea, and still have no idea, how to do that.Now I get most of my oils from Jedwards, is this one of the reputable sellers you were talking about? They seem legit. What are some other ones?Sadly, there are many shady sellers. The one you speak of, is at the top of many lists. The one I was referring to…is US based, and might have the initials (BA).
Jedwards is a top-notch source as would be NDA, and MC, a few other good sellers would also include LC, and FSS. This is not an exhaustive list, but should give you enough sources.
Simply Ingredients would be another source beyond reproach, but she has a very limited supply, but this is supposed to be increasing over time.
To the wider group, as I have started buying my TEC here: Buy Triethyl Citrate (TEC) Online Store - Essential Natural Oils And they seem to have a wide offering of products….any thoughts?
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Pb610 said:Also came across this short study comparing niacinamide with d-panthenol, might be of some use: https://sphinxsai.com/2016/ph_vol9_no7/1/(99-104)V9N7PT.pdf
Here’s the summary:
I could not open that study…what was the inclusion rate they were using?
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Here is what jumps out at me…. High rate of glycerin… Is it not a bit tacky at that rate? There are some here, that worship at the feet of glycerin, but I am not one of them.
I prefer a blended approach. Humectants do work in slightly different ways…and perform differently in different humidity’s. So, you have a very monolithic approach.
I think most of the research on B3 was done at 4%, so not sure what you hope to gain at that level. Higher rates of B3 are mainly just marketing.Petrolatum - not a big fan.
Dimethicone - I love it.
Butter Pearls - I love it.
HEC - not a big fan.Why SA?
When I worked through the crosspolymers…I found them quite obtrusive at higher levels. I think I found my happy place at .5%. What are you trying to accomplish with them?
So, I thought you were going with HEC…due to trying to be natural…but the balance of the formula does not suggest that….so why not a polymeric (or even a nice gum blend)?
I am big into the theory of cascading emollience. But I am always chasing the rainbow. Just saying…even if just for yourself…. treat yourself.
Best of Luck and enjoy the journey.
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I am more interested….to hear what you kept…and why.
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ggpetrov said:I am not sure if this workflow works for these emulsifiers! That’s the workflow you can go when you work with the Olivem or Polyaquol, and that’s because they can act as the only emollients in those cream gels. In my experience these cream gels are very light and super fast absorbing, but they are more expensive too, because you should increase the amount of the emulsifier.
When I switched from the oil phase to water… life (and the product) got ever so much better!
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chemicalmatt said:@Abdullah the GMO does not like to support LLC formation like GMS does, so negative on that. The GMS alone may support with certain emulsifier combinations, but not a singular one like you describe. I’ve always used this ratio for LLC network formation: cetyl alcohol : glyceryl stearate @ 3:1. Seems to work even with those #%$@!! glycosides. The other “hack” with LLC is slow mixing while slow cooling. Too much shear at too steep a thermocline and you end up with soup.
I was under the impression…the lamellar emulsion could take some shear while it was very hot (just combined), but then to remove shear after a minute or two….and stir down to room temp, with no enhanced cooling? Would you agree? @chemicalmatt
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GeorgeBenson said:@emma1985 nice videos! I’ve read that you shouldn’t use high shear mixing with polymers but you seem to be using your stick blender on the last video without problems, so is that not true or do you just have to be careful with it?
@Paprik , or course you can answer this question yourself, very easily. Just take water and the polymeric of your choice (at ratios you intend to formulate at)….and mix with the amount of shear you anticipate using to create a final product….judge your two ingredient mix for the next day or so…and you’ll have your answer.
When you destroy a polymeric…it is VERY obvious. I use this same method for testing electrolyte tolerance….just take the formula ratio of water, polymeric, and electrolyte you are considering adding….and emulsify. The tolerance is IMMEDIATELY evident. You don’t have to make a whole formula to know, in fact….the balance of the formula will often hide what you are trying to discover.
In case you don’t want to do your own test…. I have made every possible combination of carbomer and the top used polymerics…and with 2 minutes of moderate shear, and all is good. (I use the same Dynamic Mini Pro as Emma, but I have a head that gives MUCH more shear.)
The context of those mfg comments…are more along the lines of excessive shear. As you can imagine….the large amount of mfg’s that use polymerics…did NOT throw out their Silverson’s, to add polymerics to their line-up.
Aloha.
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When I had an oxidation issue a while back on a project. My chemist pointed out that we needed to determine which phase the problem existed in. The oil soluble antiOx’s like E and ROE are going to work in said phase. So, if the problem is in the water phase, they will not render much assistance. So, since my problem was in the water phase, we attacked it with sodium metabisulfite, and ascorbic acid (water soluble). NAC is another one…that the natural lovers might like. I think they like words like amino acids.
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Zen is rough and tumble, but if used above .5%, tends to great an undesired jiggly effect (jello). Aristoflex AVC in considered by many, the most elegant.
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Syl said:@MattTheChemist, you are right, it is more than a circumstance. A LinkedIn search reveals a family business; Ivar Malmstrom is Chairman, and Susanne Malmstrom is VP of Active Concepts which owns Active Micro Technologies.
Brett Malmstrom is Sales Manager, and Maggie Ghanem is Manager at Sample Formulator Shop, both previously worked at Active Concepts. There is no connection on LinkedIn between the 2 companies, but the people are connected.
Active Concept has an interesting history.
http://https//www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?n=2:02-cv-03148-JAP-MCA&s=NJ&d=27527I could not get your links to open. I would really like to read those.
Thank You.
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Thank you for the response @PhilGeis. It seems like they are relying heavily on Salicylic acid as part of their preservative.
I have not worked with SA…but seems to be an ingredient that if not handled just right…likes to precipitate out? So, most of the users of leucidal don’t own a pH meter. So, would it be a stretch to think…lots of times the SA will not even function (or will have precipitated out) due to the lack of creating a formula that will keep the SA happy?
Aloha.
Hehehe…. @Perry … can you make me a GIF from Mark’s last Q & A… Where he says…. not only don’t use it…but don’t buy ANYTHING from that company. I think that would be absolutely priceless.
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If just for yourself…you could shake vigorously before each use. Think salad dressing.
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I help out on a mommy blogger forum…and sometimes they ask about these agencies…and my pat answer is:
I would never let the ignorant segment of society dictate how I formulate.
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Here is the ingredients…on that extract…and ratio range.
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esthetician922 said:@ozgirl I bought the one off of Lotioncrafter and it says water soluble haha ugh. I can’t find an oil soluble. can I easily remedy this with another ingredient or should I search for a different calendula extract that has been extracted into glycerin?
The one I saw on their site was this INCI: INCI: Glycerin (and) Water (and) Calendula Officinalis Extract
That sure the heck is not gonna work.
Oil and water…don’t mix! (Without a little chemistry…hehehe.)
They glycerin is in there as the preservative…somewhere North of 40%. And water soluble.
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Does the formula you are trying to copy…have squalane?
Calendula…that sounds like a formula within a formula. Would need to know the components of that 5%. (That could contain water or glycerin…requiring addition items to hold it together.)
Aloha.
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Microformulation said:Perry said:And there is that whole exaggerated “alcohol is drying to skin” myth.
Compounded by the fact that I have had numerous clients ask to avoid Cetyl Alcohol or other Fatty alcohols based upon, “Alcohol dries the skin.”
Haven’t we seen it all!
But I hear…. ignorance is bliss! -
Thank you all! That makes perfect sense. So, it is simply about avoiding a tax. Therefore, if using a small amount, Everclear is a logical substitute. I like a little alcohol in formulation…kinda helps the D5 in that first impression arena.
Aloha.