[Graillotion]

It is not heat sensitive…just add to your water phase up front.

As with any ingredient…try it neat…. 97% water 3% trehalose. Evaluate and adjust.

I use it at 3% in a deo formula…less in all others. The deo has no other sticky stuff like oils or humectants….so no issue at all. Generally I use betaine instead of trehalose in all other formulas.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Thank you for this little gem… I will tuck it away for future use.

In Steinberg’s context… what antioxidant is he suggesting should be used? @PhilGeis

• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Use the emulsifier that gives the feel…and then build the rest into it. That is how it is done.

You can take 165…. void of texture (I call it a blank slate)….and literally build it into anything you can imagine. Much of the world is built on the back of 165….and the textures go from Yin to Yang…. black to white…. A to Z.

Work with the texturizers….the list is long and vast.

(Don’t ever ask OliveM 1000….. to feel nice. 😂 )

[Graillotion]

You’re asking a lot of your emulsifier. Usually, we ask it to emulsify well…. (not much more). The haptics are built with other pieces.

Granted….as mentioned….there are certain emulsifiers…..that just destroy haptics…right out of the gate. 😉

[Graillotion]

Well the good news is…. essentially ALL humectants are water soluble.

The sky is the limit. 😂

Two of my favorites are:

HydroVance aka Hydroxyethyl Urea …. should be noted…needs a buffer… a kiss of triethyl citrate will do the job

and

Hydroxypropyl Bis-Hydroxyethyldimonium Chloride (don’t let the word in the description about being cationic scare you off….the way the molecule is set up….it plays well with others).

I also like to always have an osmolyte as well.

Good luck

• This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Stop putting the word ‘Vitamin” in front of D….and call it what it really is…and you’ll be on the road to figuring it out.

[Graillotion]

Here is another Google search result (not vetted).

What Is Natural Moisturizing Factor And How Do You Improve Its Function? (womensconcepts.com)

Be forewarned…. just smearing these ingredients on your skin….will not necessarily have a profound effect. Skin is built from the inside out, and not the outside in. One thing you can be somewhat safe in assuming is…. your skin will not mind… being smeared with NMF ingredients. Used in moderation they should be skin friendly vs skin hostile.

Some of the names…. you use need to become familiar with… don’t let words like Pyrrolidone Carboxylic Acid scare you….it is typically abbreviated by ‘PCA’ in cosmetics. I am sure you have seen ‘Sodium PCA’ listed on a LOI before….and they are simply chasing the PCA aka Pyrrolidone Carboxylic Acid.

womensconcepts.com

What Is Natural Moisturizing Factor And How Do You Improve Its Function?

Learn here what natural moisturizing factor is, why is it so important for the skin, what depletes it and what you can do to improve its function.

[Graillotion]

NMF….is an entire category???? Many of those components are widely available. You might need to be more specific.

Here is a link briefly describing it: Natural Moisturizing Factor | Cosmeceuticals and Cosmetic Ingredients | AccessDermatologyDxRx | McGraw Hill Medical (mhmedical.com)

The latter two…just use an engine like UL Prospector to connect you to suppliers and Mfgs.

dermatology.mhmedical.com

Cosmeceuticals and Cosmetic Ingredients | AccessDermatologyDxRx | McGraw Hill Medical

Read Cosmeceuticals and Cosmetic Ingredients online now, exclusively on AccessDermatologyDxRx. AccessDermatologyDxRx is a subscription-based resource from McGraw Hill that features trusted medical content from the best minds in medicine.

[Graillotion]

Not since the time of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar has this level of insight been available. You are asking us to guess:

The product

The process

the pH

the inclusions rates

etc…

Sorry I am not that good….and not sure others are either. 😉

[Graillotion]

Does it occur to folks…. a LOT of people don’t know how to make a LOI? 😉

Could it be…. they were meaning a 3% citric acid solution? 😆

[Graillotion]

First… way Way WAY too little information given…. Don’t even know what it is supposed to be??? What do you perceive the problem to be?

I’d start with…. No water.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Yes, I am very aware LGP is an F releaser! I was asking for the replacement (non F-releasing)…since that was a FORMER recommendation.

Also, very aware of the weaknesses of PE 9010…and how to bolster it. Problem is dealing with those that don’t. Those that want to learn…can be coached into the supporting cast. Those that think they have already gone the extra mile by simply including a preservative (And this segment is HUGE!) well, all you can do is cross your fingers. Better PE 9010…than having them chase the ‘G’ brand….and not use a pH where they even have any activity…(most of the time….cus the ‘tards’ advertise their organic acids work up to a pH of 8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!) You told be the change in ownership…..would clean up their act…but have not seen a single movement in that regard. 🙁 (Marketing language that is consistent with their products performance.)

So, I was asking… If I had formerly recommended Liquid Germall Plus…. what would be the next best replacement waiting in line….to take its place?

[Graillotion]

Hahaha…. I was just telling Pharma yesterday….I save my ‘exercises in futility’ for voting. He has an unhealthy infatuation with US politics. 😂

So hypothetical question @PhilGeis , sometimes I help out on beginner forums….and it used to be my pairing of preservatives (not together…one or the other) when they would ask for a recommendation was…. PE 9010 or Liquid Germall Plus. For the beginner crew…that will probably be adverse to anything good… and only have access to beginner repacker ingredients…. What would be your replacement piece to recommend for a ‘One and Done’ drop in. (Of course I know that is the impossible answer….and hated to even present it that way…. but that is the very best you are going to hope for….other than getting them to add a chelate.)

Aloha…. Passed the weekends tropical storm, and preparing for the hurricane later this week.

[Graillotion]

Sodium lactate is another in that category….leaving what is generally perceived as a pleasant after feel.

[Graillotion]

Beautiful explanation. I am just baffled why the beginner sites promote stick blends as instruments of shear. Especially when for a few dollars more, they can buy a tool that gets quite close to your explanation, from Dynamic/Misceo.

I will enclose a picture of the head from my Dynamic….so people can view the tolerance between the bell and hammer.

I will also mention… Silverson has numerous videos on YouTube that show (but don’t explain well) some of these differences.

[Graillotion]

Speaking of a buffer…if the pH is low enough…you can just use some Triethyl citrate and it will do the job…. But why I jumped back on was…. some of the mfg propaganda has suggested that is aides in soaping. I have no idea if this is correct or not….cus I don’t have soaping issues as a lover of the silicone oils. But might be worth investigating. Memba…. TEC is an ESTER…and feels like a darn nice one. In and of itself it does not have a pH….so you can apply neat to your skin….even though it is an ester of citric acid. It is a special little gem in the tool box…. Just got two liters of it for the lab….last week.

PS: If I recall correctly…. Hydrovance will also break an AVC gel….so also a non-starter.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Should be noted….some of my comments are self-canceling…ie : Sodium lactate and Aristoflex AVC…would be non starters in the same formula.

Another nice humectant that also leaves a nice skin feel…is Hydrovance, a type of urea. Does need a little buffer built in.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

I have no idea what you are asking.

I don’t think I have really ever considered the option of the emulsifier dictating the haptics (granted they do a bit). I always looked at them as more the scaffolding that you hang the ornaments on.

So, I have always built my textures with the slippery stuff. That being said… It sounds like I am absolutely the wrong guy for the job…. I like light and dry….end of story. As an example….if you said make your dry and lite cream more rich and something…. I’d probably reach for Isostearyl Isostearate and replace the Dicaprylyl carbonate…. that would immediately alter the personality quite a bit. Other things that add richness are things like cetyl esters/palmitate or my preferred Myristyl Myristate. Richness is all in what you do with the ornaments. You should be able to take a 165 type (what I call a blank sheet of paper…with no personality)… and create a Hyundai or a Porsche from it. Don’t forget some of your classical refatting agents….maybe something as simple as Glyceryl oleate, might start pushing your project in the direction you want.

For feeling more moist…. at least at the moment of application….nothing can match a fast break from a polymeric like Aristoflex AVC…. dropping its load of water, with the first stroke across the skin. Don’t know it that fits in agenda based formulating…and don’t care. Some other tricks…would be toss a couple percent of pentylene glycol in….wanna make water feel wetter….bingo. I also think that tools like Lauryl Laurate really help with that first 10 second impression.

Moisture after feel….is all about your humectants…. make sure you have used two or three…. hard to paint the Mona Lisa with only one color on your palette. Some humectants…like sodium lactate not only moisturize…but leave what is generally perceived as a nice after feel as well… I am NOT a guy that EVER does glycerin and done. That is just something you have to learn from trial and error.

Well good luck….as mentioned….not sure what you were after….so just rambled for a bit. There is a Q&A with the formulators in a few hours….jump on there…and ask your Q’s.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Keep in mind…he is a pharmacist….so some of his comments will bounce between cosmetics and drugs….as he works with both.

[Graillotion]

In the name of saving keystokes…I’ll do a couple of big ‘cut and pastes’. First what is it???

“It is somewhat ironic that vitamin D, through a historical accident, became classified as a ‘vitamin’, owing to the fact that vitamin is conventionally defined as ‘essential item needed in the diet’. The paradox with ‘vitamin D’ is that diet per se is usually poor in vitamin D except for cod or other fish oils or food fortified with this vitamin.

Vitamin D is actually a fat-soluble prohormone steroid that has endocrine, paracrine and autocrine functions. The endocrine effects of vitamin D are mainly involved in serum calcium homeostasis”

So, it just can’t seem to shake-off the old nickname of vitamin. Moving on…. the next bit is from my Genius PhD mentor… when we touched on it back in 2021.

” Vitamin A and vitamin D are the only two vitamins which are not

co-factors in enzymes and/or antioxidants but, in their active forms,
bind directly to promoters which ‘activate genes’ and produce more
effect the more you take and don’t level off at the limit given by the
physiologic concentration of corresponding enzymes.
Similar to most B vitamins which require activation, vitamin A is
commonly applied as precursor (retinol or retinyl esters) which, to some
degree, can be activated by all living cells and organs. Vitamin D in
its common form cholecalciferol needs to be activated first in the liver
and then the kidneys in order to become biologically active. This means
that topically applied vitamin D will not show any topical effects like
in the case of vitamin A but has to penetrate skin, get assimilated,
pass through the whole body to become active, and finally exert its
function systemically (in the whole body). That’s the main reason why
biologically active vitamin D derivatives are used in topical products.
To my knowledge, cholecalciferol has no topical effect and those would
be the ones you need for claims. The instant you claim metabolic
activation, your product is a drug (or nutrient supplement) because it
relies on a full body circulation and lacks skin targeting.”

I think his comments are pretty straight forward. Basically, D cannot do a thing…without full body circulation….which instantly dumps it into one of two categories…. fake claims…or drug. You pick. Good luck.

“

[Graillotion]

Oh….and lest I forget….I stand firmly behind my original comment of…. Many (not all) companies simply don’t have the acumen to create a LOI. 😂 Again….not referring to the big dogz…. just the other subset.

[Graillotion]

And….NO…. I did not change the spelling….a true ‘copy and paste’. 😂

[Graillotion]

Hahaha….I did not even look at the brand…. just figured with the sketchy marketing, it was a FaceBook type product. We’ll give them a pass…but a reprimand for pushing the marketing envelope.

Keep in mind my perspective….just minutes earlier I was commenting on this LOI on FB:

Product Ingredients: Coconut Oil, Refined Shea Butter, Castor Oil, Aloe Vera, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Grapeseed Oil, Vitamin e, Aloe Vera Powder, Lanoline.

Care to comment? 😂 Oh….and for perspective…that is a LOTION!

• This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

You cannot allow your personal knowledge of cosmetics interfere with the sugar plum and fairy tale dreams of the consumer. You must play to those if you desire sales. Otherwise, they can just go and buy a mega jug of Vaseline for $7 from the big box store. You must build the fantasy and dream….even if it is done at .1% at a time. 😂

We all still formulate the fairy tale into your products, just the rate of fairy dust included….is far lower than the general public expects. 😉 (I have a whole shelf of ‘fairy dust’ that I use…. and the good news is…. a small jar/bottle…..lasts FOREVER! 😂 )

• This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Oh…PLEASE don’t misunderstand me!!! Even big girls need Christmas! Success and failure in cosmetics is 99.997% based on your marketing. You NEED these type stories and folk lore to sell your products. BUT……….. you only need one drop….or commonly mentioned as .1, .01, or .001% for you to wax eloquent about that ingredient for hours, while humming kumbaya to the faithful.

You need your ‘claim’ ingredients to build the fairy tale on. Without the fairy tale….doesn’t matter how good your product is…. it will be very difficult to sell!