[Graillotion]

Stop putting the word ‘Vitamin” in front of D….and call it what it really is…and you’ll be on the road to figuring it out.

[Graillotion]

Here is another Google search result (not vetted).

What Is Natural Moisturizing Factor And How Do You Improve Its Function? (womensconcepts.com)

Be forewarned…. just smearing these ingredients on your skin….will not necessarily have a profound effect. Skin is built from the inside out, and not the outside in. One thing you can be somewhat safe in assuming is…. your skin will not mind… being smeared with NMF ingredients. Used in moderation they should be skin friendly vs skin hostile.

Some of the names…. you use need to become familiar with… don’t let words like Pyrrolidone Carboxylic Acid scare you….it is typically abbreviated by ‘PCA’ in cosmetics. I am sure you have seen ‘Sodium PCA’ listed on a LOI before….and they are simply chasing the PCA aka Pyrrolidone Carboxylic Acid.

womensconcepts.com

What Is Natural Moisturizing Factor And How Do You Improve Its Function?

Learn here what natural moisturizing factor is, why is it so important for the skin, what depletes it and what you can do to improve its function.

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NMF….is an entire category???? Many of those components are widely available. You might need to be more specific.

Here is a link briefly describing it: Natural Moisturizing Factor | Cosmeceuticals and Cosmetic Ingredients | AccessDermatologyDxRx | McGraw Hill Medical (mhmedical.com)

The latter two…just use an engine like UL Prospector to connect you to suppliers and Mfgs.

dermatology.mhmedical.com

Cosmeceuticals and Cosmetic Ingredients | AccessDermatologyDxRx | McGraw Hill Medical

Read Cosmeceuticals and Cosmetic Ingredients online now, exclusively on AccessDermatologyDxRx. AccessDermatologyDxRx is a subscription-based resource from McGraw Hill that features trusted medical content from the best minds in medicine.

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Not since the time of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar has this level of insight been available. You are asking us to guess:

The product

The process

the pH

the inclusions rates

etc…

Sorry I am not that good….and not sure others are either. 😉

[Graillotion]

Does it occur to folks…. a LOT of people don’t know how to make a LOI? 😉

Could it be…. they were meaning a 3% citric acid solution? 😆

[Graillotion]

First… way Way WAY too little information given…. Don’t even know what it is supposed to be??? What do you perceive the problem to be?

I’d start with…. No water.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Tromethamine, Triethanolamine (TEA), Sodium or potassium hydroxide, and even L-arginine if you have a natural leaning.

Good luck.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

If it is just a tiny adjustment….sometimes you can give it a nudge with your chelate…. look at what Sodium Phytate vs Phytic acid does.

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When we start at the very beginning of cosmetics…. we get excited about this oil, and that oil…and the fatty acid profile. Later we start to learn that the fatty acids are actually part of a triglyceride, and

fatty acid content has little bearing on skin performance, other than some haptic variation, and rate of absorption. Along with this line of thought, we also discover some TEWL variability.

Not until we begin to realize that skin essentially has very little mechanisms to break triglycerides does it start to dawn on us… why the people that know the most about oils, cosmetics and skin…. mainly use CCT…. instead of some exotic oil that some blogger wrote about the magical properties. The more we learn about skin… we learn that skin is not built from the outside in, but from the inside out. Along these lines, the skin is NOT looking for or typically utilizing building material that gets smeared on the surface.

Triglyceride breakdown… happens readily in our digestive system, hence consuming healthy oils will have a dramatic effect on health. The skin however has very little enzymatic activity, and about any triglyceride breakdown is going to be miniscule and done by the local microbiome residents (bacteria). And as my mentor likes to say… no one works for free… meaning if they go to the effort of breaking a triglyceride, it is usually done so it can eat part of the results.

The more you learn about the oils…. the less exciting cosmetics gets. Hence, I often encourage those starting out…not to learn the ins and outs of oils… as you can quickly lose your fervor once you really start to understand things. Oils are basically claim ingredients to help sell the product. Keep them on that level…. use the fake claims to help you sell the product. Put a drop in the formula, and sing the praises for hours, but then make sure you actually formulate with the functions you need…. elegance, moisturizing, a bit of barrier….and lots and lots of marketing.

Here is a reasonably good video that explains some of the oil concept. She is very careful not to fully steal Christmas from the Who’s in Whoville…. but if you go into it with a glimpse of what really is behind the curtain…. it is quite revealing.

Good Luck!

Skincare Oils and Free Fatty Acids: The Science | Lab Muffin Beauty Science (youtube.com)

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BTW…. as I was mowing the lawn….(time in which I do much pondering) …. I don’t recall that you have shown your formula. Bubbles in formulas can often come from a ‘reaction’ beyond just being introduced by equipment. You haven’t done anything crazy…. like putting baking soda in your formula, have you? Reactions can come from many ingredients…not just sodium bicarbonate and an acid.

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Aloha… A few things. Most of us would not call a fatty alcohol a co-emulsifier. Don’t get me wrong…without them it is difficult to make a good robust emulsion. But based on the definition, and where they work (between the phases) they are better called ….. emulsion builders. They are often added as a component of an emulsifier….ala …. Mont 68 you mentioned. (Often used as a stretcher…to hit that 4 to 1 emulsifier to oil phase for potent emulsifiers.) They certainly have qualities associated with emulsification…ala cetearyl alcohol + Ceteareth-20…and so on. Sometimes used as the GMS type piece, based on some technical aspects.

You should make great steps forward with stability with the SSG.

The reason Glyceryl Stearate SE probably didn’t work for you….is that it requires a higher pH to function, and this is often left out of the seller’s propaganda material. Albeit it would NEVER use an emulsifier that needs a higher pH to function. I have skin! 😂

For a face product….I am almost always using Mont 202 as a starting point. Couldn’t have a more different haptic from M 68….which I agree….is heavy and occlusive feeling.

I typically use M 202 + 165 + kiss of anionic (PCP or SSG). I know the middle piece will preclude you…but this always makes bulletproof magic. Not sure if PCP (Potassium Cetyl Phosphate) fits into agenda based formulating…but if it does….certainly one to look at! SSG can be used at lower pH’s than PCP.

Good luck.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

As Perry mentioned, incubation is the typical method for simulating time in cosmetics. I believe your ingredient is also light sensitive, so if you have the option to use clear containers, and bright lighting…that should take it one more level up.

Aloha.

[Graillotion]

I was mucking around in old forums…and maybe there is a nugget hidden in this old thread:

(Pharma always had good insights in the deep chemistry.)

The low down on soaping…the how’s and why’s (in lotion). - Chemists Corner

• This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

chemistscorner.com

The low down on soaping...the how's and why's (in lotion). - Chemists Corner

If there is one thing I am passionate about.... I hate lotions that soap.....(create a white residue on skin, and must be worked in with…

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Keep in mind…he is a pharmacist….so some of his comments will bounce between cosmetics and drugs….as he works with both.

[Graillotion]

In the name of saving keystokes…I’ll do a couple of big ‘cut and pastes’. First what is it???

“It is somewhat ironic that vitamin D, through a historical accident, became classified as a ‘vitamin’, owing to the fact that vitamin is conventionally defined as ‘essential item needed in the diet’. The paradox with ‘vitamin D’ is that diet per se is usually poor in vitamin D except for cod or other fish oils or food fortified with this vitamin.

Vitamin D is actually a fat-soluble prohormone steroid that has endocrine, paracrine and autocrine functions. The endocrine effects of vitamin D are mainly involved in serum calcium homeostasis”

So, it just can’t seem to shake-off the old nickname of vitamin. Moving on…. the next bit is from my Genius PhD mentor… when we touched on it back in 2021.

” Vitamin A and vitamin D are the only two vitamins which are not

co-factors in enzymes and/or antioxidants but, in their active forms,
bind directly to promoters which ‘activate genes’ and produce more
effect the more you take and don’t level off at the limit given by the
physiologic concentration of corresponding enzymes.
Similar to most B vitamins which require activation, vitamin A is
commonly applied as precursor (retinol or retinyl esters) which, to some
degree, can be activated by all living cells and organs. Vitamin D in
its common form cholecalciferol needs to be activated first in the liver
and then the kidneys in order to become biologically active. This means
that topically applied vitamin D will not show any topical effects like
in the case of vitamin A but has to penetrate skin, get assimilated,
pass through the whole body to become active, and finally exert its
function systemically (in the whole body). That’s the main reason why
biologically active vitamin D derivatives are used in topical products.
To my knowledge, cholecalciferol has no topical effect and those would
be the ones you need for claims. The instant you claim metabolic
activation, your product is a drug (or nutrient supplement) because it
relies on a full body circulation and lacks skin targeting.”

I think his comments are pretty straight forward. Basically, D cannot do a thing…without full body circulation….which instantly dumps it into one of two categories…. fake claims…or drug. You pick. Good luck.

“

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Oh….and lest I forget….I stand firmly behind my original comment of…. Many (not all) companies simply don’t have the acumen to create a LOI. 😂 Again….not referring to the big dogz…. just the other subset.

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And….NO…. I did not change the spelling….a true ‘copy and paste’. 😂

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Hahaha….I did not even look at the brand…. just figured with the sketchy marketing, it was a FaceBook type product. We’ll give them a pass…but a reprimand for pushing the marketing envelope.

Keep in mind my perspective….just minutes earlier I was commenting on this LOI on FB:

Product Ingredients: Coconut Oil, Refined Shea Butter, Castor Oil, Aloe Vera, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Grapeseed Oil, Vitamin e, Aloe Vera Powder, Lanoline.

Care to comment? 😂 Oh….and for perspective…that is a LOTION!

• This reply was modified 4 months ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

You cannot allow your personal knowledge of cosmetics interfere with the sugar plum and fairy tale dreams of the consumer. You must play to those if you desire sales. Otherwise, they can just go and buy a mega jug of Vaseline for $7 from the big box store. You must build the fantasy and dream….even if it is done at .1% at a time. 😂

We all still formulate the fairy tale into your products, just the rate of fairy dust included….is far lower than the general public expects. 😉 (I have a whole shelf of ‘fairy dust’ that I use…. and the good news is…. a small jar/bottle…..lasts FOREVER! 😂 )

• This reply was modified 4 months ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 4 months ago by  Graillotion.

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Oh…PLEASE don’t misunderstand me!!! Even big girls need Christmas! Success and failure in cosmetics is 99.997% based on your marketing. You NEED these type stories and folk lore to sell your products. BUT……….. you only need one drop….or commonly mentioned as .1, .01, or .001% for you to wax eloquent about that ingredient for hours, while humming kumbaya to the faithful.

You need your ‘claim’ ingredients to build the fairy tale on. Without the fairy tale….doesn’t matter how good your product is…. it will be very difficult to sell!

[Graillotion]

Thanx for the warning….I had considered coming back for a day or two…. in search of people to test a couple products.

A deodorant for sensitive skin…

and

Looking for some people to test an acne cream.

Maybe I will…maybe I won’t. All I know….is I haven’t missed it…. at all!

EWG …. as far as I can tell…this is an organization designed to employ the worthless offspring of politicians, who go to school to see who can smoke the biggest bong….get the diploma because of who was writing the check…. and have utterly no function in society. Where yah gonna stick them? I fully believe EWG was created to hide these kids from the world! 😂 You know….where Hunter would work….if he would work.

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Skin is acidic….across the board. It varies from location to location on your body….so anyone that says your skin is pH of _____. Doesn’t know much about skin. We abuse our skin and the acid mantle with frequency, but fortunately it has coping mechanisms. However… it is best to keep the abuse to a minimum. This is why we rinse off soap after using it….and not leave it in place. Recovery time is longer than you think….measured in hours. This is why well-made skincare is typically on the acidic side of the scale…to keep your skin happy.

So back to your soap-based emulsifier… you are not understanding the chemistry… the reason your emulsion likely failed….. if you lowered the pH back to skin friendly…then you ‘un-made’ the soap. The emulsifier simply no longer works….if you lower the pH. A soap like that has to remain a soap, if you wish it to also remain an emulsifier…. can’t just take it there for 5 min…and then reverse the structure that makes it work.

Things like stearic acid…can be used as a non-soap. It will thicken an emulsion that is acidic, but won’t emulsify it. It will thicken AND emulsify, if you take it to a high enough pH (it becomes a stearate soap). I have seen lots of people become confused with this concept. You often see it presented incorrectly on the beginner blogger sites/schools.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….wait. I think you are confused (re-read your comment). Almost all products will list the effect it has on the pH of a formula. THIS IN NO WAY OR MEANS….what is the functional range. This is a set of numbers provided to the formulator….to show them what adding this product will do to an established pH….so they can be prepared and can act accordingly. Just about EVERY quality ingredient provider will provide this information….if their product will influence formula pH.

pH that is operates best at…. in the formula…. is a completely different topic. They don’t like to tell you that….as it can possibly limit sales to those that don’t have full chemistry skills.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

😂 It will be a little difficult to help you….if you believe what is written on the internet by sellers and manufacturers. 😂 Take a close look at GMS SE … and put your chemistry hat on…and ask why they list it as anionic?

Basically, they are trying to make a potassium stearate soap out of it. Put your soap making hat on…how do you make soap? Yup with pH. I’ll let you decide what pH it takes to make that into an anionic soap…. no fun if I spoon-feed you the answers. Ask yourself….why didn’t it work….when you used it? 😉

Stearic acid is non-ionic…but becomes mildly anionic once it is saponified.

BTW… GSC is not a robust emulsifier. A decent emulsifier, that usually feels good. The SSG & PCP…. you can use the words ‘robust’ with. 🙂

Read last sentence of attached file….they hint towards reality. 😉

63104-SustOleo-GMS-SE-Product-Bulletin.pdf 44 KB PDF - Click to view

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• Copy Download Link

[Graillotion]

I do not let entities with agendas and a lack of science knowledge dictate how I formulate…

But when I did work with emulsifiers that fit agendas… Heliofeel aka: Glyceryl Stearate Citrate (and) Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate (and) Hydrogenated Lecithin was one of the better ones I come across.

That would lead into exploring options with Glyceryl Stearate Citrate…and several of the polyglycerols.

I use SSG a lot…but only ever in a supporting role to bring an anionic kiss to a non-ionic formula.