Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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BTW… I do not use this as a preservation system…just trying to help those that do. 🙂
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I always liked the concept of L22…it was just too expensive…and I could never source the mac sterols. So I kinda made my own hack…with acai sterols in place of.
I think….if you are really looking for a close match…it would have to be…a blend.
Great link….I had spent some time on ‘Scholar’ before posting…but not enough. 🙂
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I tried a ‘natural’ BG….mfg unknown, as I got it from a repacker.
It was absolutely gross (haptics)….and thrown out.
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With silica…there are sooooooo many variants. But as long as you get one that is round…and micron size is small enough (mainly micron size), you should be in good shape.
The Thai place even has a polymeth coated in dimethicone…that I like. 🙂
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Thank you for your response Dr Phil and Perry.
I was clearly aware of cosmetic products with significant penetrating prowess and design. Just wasn’t sure if they were dancing with the devil…or full within their rights. 🙂
Aloha.
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What I am asking….in a nutshell is…. Is there any verbiage in the FDA’s description of a cosmetic….in relation to its ability, or lack thereof, to penetrate the skin?
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With nary a mention of final pH… You scare me!
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Like anyone else would do…. do a couple of knock outs.
I’d start with dl Panth, and follow it up with the HA.
Good luck.
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This comment is not related to the course you ask about, just a general statement….
If you were to select a University to attend, I would assume you would look at the slate of professors that were in the department of your area of study. Your education will reflect what they teach you. You can only learn as much as they know.
With that….if you are looking for supplemental course work to enhance your knowledge, apply the same parameters… review the background of the course creator/s.
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Regarding your last question…. I use a lot of 165 and similar emulsifiers. Rare is the day….I do not add a polymeric (gelling agent) to the formula….as it simply makes them feel better.
As mentioned earlier….products like Aristoflex AVC…which is sensitive to electrolytes…. you play this as a strength…. It will ‘break’ aka ‘fast-break’ when it contacts your skin…giving that burst of freshness/wetness that makes a product feel unique and special (that portion of the emulsion actually breaks….when contacting the electrolytes of the skin). I have always felt that a slight gel undertone in a standard emulsion….makes it incredibly better.
Polymerics work via steric hindrance, therefore do not interfere with a standard emulsifier…but works in conjunction with them….to increase stability….and if used right….haptics.
Good luck.
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Hyaluronic acid is primarily used as a claim ingredient, for a couple of reasons. It has a fascinating story/marketing line….can absorb 1000 X it’s weight in water. The non-thinking public will jump all over this like a feeding frenzy at a Koi pond. It is also popular in that it is part of NMF, which again….will generally produce a feeding frenzy…without the consumer ever once asking….’How’ or ‘Why’.
So why is it sometimes used as a sole gelling agent? Simple…it is a reasonably electrolyte resistant gelling agent that has good consumer perception. With so many of the elegant gelling agents being reasonably intolerant to the electrolytes….there is certainly a niche for it.
Most consumers that don’t lie to themselves….eventually figure out…that HA by itself is quite drying to the skin….as it is always trying to recapture max hydration. So if it is used in a product where hydration is important…then we support it with other…more functional moisturizers, but still sing the ‘claims’ of HA. Quite frankly…I hate the stuff….yet use it often?! ????
So back to your question
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Hyaluronic acid is primarily used as a claim ingredient, for a couple of reasons. It has a fascinating story/marketing line….can absorb 1000 X it’s weight in water. The non-thinking public will jump all over this like a feeding frenzy at a Koi pond. It is also popular in that it is part of NMF, which again….will generally produce a feeding frenzy…without the consumer ever once asking….’How’ or ‘Why’.
So why is it sometimes used as a sole gelling agent? Simple…it is a reasonably electrolyte resistant gelling agent that has good consumer perception. With so many of the elegant gelling agents being reasonably intolerant to the electrolytes….there is certainly a niche for it.
Most consumers that don’t lie to themselves….eventually figure out…that HA by itself is quite drying to the skin….as it is always trying to recapture max hydration. So if it is used in a product where hydration is important…then we support it with other…more functional moisturizers, but still sing the ‘claims’ of HA. Quite frankly…I hate the stuff….yet use it often?! ????
So back to your question… you can use any of the gelling agents you mentioned….however…the haptics will vary dramatically. The gums….are likely to become snotty … if used at too high a level… Zen gets Jiggly and gross above about .5%. I was a little surprised that Aristoflex AVC was not on your list…as it is held in high regard by many crafters, and especially professionals? If you look at elegant products…they will often blend more than one polymeric….to create a synergy of textures….ie… try a blend of Aristoflex AVC and Sodium Carbomer. The limiting factor with most of the polymerics….is of course…their sensitivity to electrolytes….so the first question is…. is there anything else in the formula that precludes using gelling agent X?
Good Luck.
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As @chemicalmatt would say….add some Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate.
As I would say….lose the butters and find a replacement. They make you sweat anyway…which is a bit counterintuitive.
Good luck.
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You are correct…in that the nasties started growing on day one. Preservation issues cannot be seen with the naked eye, until they have reached megalithic proportions. You can have raging colonies…long before anything is visible, or has an interesting smell. The dark spot you are seeing is likely mold. @PhilGeis can probably confirm that.
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Thank you for the update.
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For Zinc PCA replacement…you could look at niacinamide.
You could also look at some matteing agents…. like rice startch, and maybe some silica.
Regarding oily skin…just eliminate the natural oils/butters….and use esters. I find Dicaprylyl carbonate rather magical in this arena.
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@Abdullah and @Pharma …above an beyond the myriad of problems with the new format…I also had problems. I typically use Microsoft edge (as I hate goofle) …and was having trouble commenting… So I tried entering the forum on Google Chrome….No problem. I think the new system…is not supporting all browsers equally.
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Oh…the lore run deeps…from childhood poverty to baldness….
It may be the single best cosmetic ingredient…that big pharma has been hiding from you.
Thank me later. ????
(Sorry… I hang out on all the wrong sites.)
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OM 1000 is not ethoxylated… Only Peg 100 is.
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” i’ve never had a sucsessful emulsion when I try to combine ethoxylated and non ethoxylated emulsifiers.”
Huh???
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Do you make the extract?
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Yes, Pharma and Matt are brilliant and have been tremendously helpful.
I should also mention….nothing replaces experience. I quickly achieved 1,000 emulsions made….often time with the change of one ingredient. This creates an intimate knowledge of ingredients, and what things do, and how they alter the result.
One of my friends says….my style is ‘Italian formulation’….(probably not meant as a compliment)….as I chase the tiniest of nuances. When my mentors say….”perfect”…. that means…at least 20 more iterations are in order. ????
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Oh Dr Geis, you are too funny!!!
But in an attempt to answer your question….I’ll give a little backstory and insight.
Personality….pretty much the embodiment of Spock from Star Trek…. only logical things register in my brain. Education: Went to the toughest (most academic) English speaking grade school, middle school, high school on the planet (not in the US…and same one as Ken Jennings). I did not even realize that something other than academic excellence existed, until I returned to the US.
Throughout my career, I have taken several paths, some very unusual, but all very beneficial. I ended up in agricultural chemistry, even though my degrees do not reflect this. So my day to day life became chemistry, which I learned the good old fashioned way. At 50 I sold to Dupont, and retired to the islands.
For 20 years, my hobby has been plant breeding, mainly hibiscus, and the company that was sold to Dupont also dabbled in this field (not hibiscus ????). One of the other areas of my studies was nutrition, which I think lends nicely into cosmetics and cosmeceuticals. So in retirement, I chose a location/elevation in Hawaii, that almost never breaks 80F (26.6C), and annual rainfall exceeds 300″ (762 cm). This climate dictated an additional hobby that could be done indoors.
Cometics and cosmeceuticals became the indoor passion. I actually took the standard path…for lack of a better term…. we’ll call it the ‘mommy blogger’ path. Well………….it didn’t take more than a few weeks….to determine this was not the correct path…or EVEN a path. My searches landed me on this site. At first, I just read all the old threads. I would speculate….I am in the top five….(maybe higher) for having read the most old threads. My skill set in learning….has always been…. 1) Asking the right questions. 2) Having a very sensitive BS meter. Reading old threads was very valuable, and I quickly learned who held the intellectual assets. With a bit of time, I made good friends with two of the most brilliant minds that were at the time frequently on the site, and good acquaintance with several others. Two in particular, privately mentored me for a couple of years, up to and including now. They have invested I would have to estimate…more than a thousand hours each! I consider them now….as dear friends. The beauty of this type education….it focused entirely, 100% on the topic at hand. Not huge amounts of peripheral information that would never be used. (Hence, if you get me very far off topic…. I quickly become clueless.)
The other thing that has rounded me out, even the most brilliant minds have their specialties. I was able to gather the information, and essential compile and compound it. In the area of haptics, brilliance does not always equate to excellence. Our group used to have a non-chemist, that I considered the wizard of haptics. So I could take the brilliance of phytochemistry and pharmacognosy, and combined it with the haptic wizard….and create a function gem.
I will not name my mentors, as I fear this would invite throngs to their doors, and it is not my place to donate their time. And I think many of you know who some or all of my mentors have been. This process did NOT occur in open forum, but outside these walls. Their giving spirit has been instilled in me, and I have dedicated many hundreds of hours on a beginner site. Mainly I try and instill in them a sense of urgency in the area of preservation…as they naturally do not want to take that path. It is at time incredibly frustrating, and I have to take breaks. But, to those whom much has been given, much is to be expected.
Sorry for the expose…. but I mainly wanted to write this as a tribute and honorarium to those that have given me so much, which includes you Dr Geis ( @PhilGeis ). Current reading is: Harry’s Cosmeticology 8th edition.
Aloha!
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????????
I’ve seen it all!
Thank You….and YES…most of them have OM1000. ????