[Doreen]

Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Can you buy directly from Shulke 9010, it comes with ethylhexylglycerin and I have never had a problem with odour. Hope this helps

Neither have I, I kinda like the scent! But I’m afraid if you don’t like the smell of phenoxy, you’re not going to like Euxyl PE 9010 either.

[Doreen]

@Lisa18
I just answered straight away without remembering this is your post and I’m way off topic. My apologies.

I have the idea that Euxyl PE 9010 can have influence on viscosity, I think because of the phenoxyethanol, but I might be mistaken. I’ve had some viscosity issues when using this preservative too. The difference is my viscosity change was quick and yours after 2 years. I agree with Perry, 2 years is a long time!

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
I wanted a whipped, mousse like texture and had to put it in the freezer a couple of times for a short while, so I was afraid what the allantoin would do as it doesn’t seem to like temperature changes much.
Right now (about 5 hours later at room temperature) I still don’t feel/see any shard like crystals, hopefully it will stay that way!

It has become a lovely, pink coloured mousse, not grainy or anything.

60% shea butter (refined)
10% aby butter (abysinnian oil, hydrogenated vegetable oil)
0.1% BHT
0.1% propyl paraben
jojoba oil ad 100

1% allantoin
1.5% cyclopentasiloxane
0.2% fragrance
Gromwell Root CO2 extract (Simmondsia Chinensis Seed Oil (and) Lithospermum Erythrorhizon Root Extract) q.s. 

The extract was for the pink colouration. Gromwell root gives an intense deep red colour, so I only needed a needlepoint, a tiny speck for a light pink colour (it is even dilluted >50% with jojoba oil, and still so very concentrated!)
(It gives intense red when pH is acidic and turns blue when basic, and when there’s no pH like here, it remains intense red.)

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
I agree, it is confusing. All carbomers are polymers of acrylic acid, but some of them are also cross linked. So in cases like these the INCI names don’t say everything about the identity of the product.

This is especially annoying when repackers (like Making Cosmetics and several other DIY suppliers) only mention the INCI + their own name, like ‘Gel Maker Powder’.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
What C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer do you mean exactly that you prefer? Ultrez 20 and 21 are also C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymers, but different than Pemulen TR-2, as mentioned by @Dirtnap1.

[Doreen]

Seppic’s Sepimax Zen: it’s not a carbomer, but has very good sensorials and it can handle a huge load of electrolytes!

[Doreen]

And I’m curious what preservative you are using.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
True, and hard to preserve properly.
Today I will be making an anhydrous foot balm and disperse allantoin into it. My first time using it in an anhydrous formula!

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
That’s annoying! I never use aloe so I have zero experience with it. Lately I’ve had my first troubles with allantoin and I’ve been working with it for years. Now I’ve seen for myself how allantoin looks recrystallized. Bummer.

[Doreen]

@Lisa18
What I meant with the chelating agents was that these are also electrolytes (regarding viscosity drops due to electrolyte sensitive polymers).
I always use them according to the hurdle technique to enhance the preservative system.

The % of polymer depends on what polymer you use (does it have emulsifying properties like AVC, Pemulen and do you use other emulsifiers with it, electrolyte sensitivity etc etc) and all of the other ingredients and the % of those.
The recommended % is nearly always mentioned in the (technical) data sheets of the manufacturer.

[Doreen]

@shiva
Do you know Easynov? It can be used cold process!

https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/1432/103357/EASYNOV

[Doreen]

@em88
I have made W/O creams with 80% water! It’s just very important to add the water phase to the oil phase and not vice versa.

https://betaknowledge.ulprospector.com/6657/pcc-silky-smooth-creams-creating-high-internal-phase-emulsions/

Edit: I see it’s already been mentioned. I overlooked the fact that only the last post is very recent. sorry!

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
Small amounts of electrolytes will be tolerated oftentimes, also depending on the % of polymer you use of course. I nearly always use a chelating agent (diNa EDTA or Na phytate) and I’ve never noticed viscosity drops due to this.

@Lisa18
You can also test electrolyte tolerance by adding kitchen salt (NaCl, KCl), it’s the cheapest way.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
I hadn’t heard of it either until now. I see Vantage Specialty Products sells it (Hylasome EG10), this is what they say about it:

“Hylasome® EG10 is a chemically crosslinked hyaluronic acid derived from a non-animal source. It possesses an exceptionally high water-binding capacity resulting in excellent moisturizing abilities. It is also a scavenger of damaging free radicals. Hylasome® EG10 has a unique nonequilibrium gel structure with gel domains that hold tightly bound water. The material forms a film on the skin and delivers this water over time.”

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
That’s why Zen is my all time favourite!

[Doreen]

Oh bummer :disappointed: I’ve just bought Ultrez 30, doesn’t sound promising…

Btw, does anyone have experience with Tego Carbomer 141 (Evonik)?

[Doreen]

@MarkBroussard
It’s most likely the Sorbic Acid in the Optiphen Plus causing a flushing reaction.  Try changing your preservative to something without a sorbate in it.

I second that. Sorbates (potassium salt or the acid) causes flushing for me too.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
I have used oatmeal quite often in moisturizers in the past, around 2-2.5%. Because it’s such a challenge to preserve as it’s bugfood, I make freshly made masks with it and leave it on the skin for a while for the soothing effect.
You’re right, it’s nearly impossible to hide the smell of proteins, it’s still a vomit-like (and inducing) smell combined with a fragrance. :persevere:

@NoviceKarel
Did you order a new batch of phenoxyethanol and did it smell differently?

[Doreen]

For small quantities there is also a DIY supplier in Germany (Aliacura) that sells Dermosoft 1388 (ECO). They sell a lot of products from Evonik/Dr. Straetmans. As far as I know they ship worldwide and they always had very reasonable prices.

The only point is, sadly (one of) the owner(s) has passed away several months ago and the webshop is still closed… You can read it on their home page.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
You’re welcome!

[Doreen]

It’s hard to tell why there’s mold and discoloration without knowing more details, like the other ingredients used and how much, % parabens, % sorbic acid, pH, type of packaging etc.
I also think poloxamers interact with parabens but I’m not sure.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
It’s all in Dutch only, but if it’s only rosehip seed oil you’re looking for, I can give the details right here (it’s from an Excel file). This is about rosehip in general, if you order the oil, I would ask a CoA from your supplier for exact data.

As you can see, a high % of (poly)unsaturated fatty acids.

Linolenic acid (omega 3): 30-40%
Linoleic acid (omega 6):   40-50%
Oleic acid (omega 9):       14-18%
Palmitic acid:   2-5%
Stearic acid:     1.5 - 3%

Iodine value: 175-185
Saponification value: .138

[Doreen]

@Chemist77
:joy:

@ngarayeva001
Yes, but I didn’t contradict that fact. I do formulate with (mostly synthetic) fragrances a lot. Between 0.1 - 0.3% usually. I have a sensitive skin type, but I can handle concentrations that low.

[Doreen]

@ngarayeva001
I never use proteins no more because of the terrible smell, no matter it’s from oat, wheat or silk… it’s just disgusting! :no_mouth:

[Doreen]

I agree with @ozgirl .
According to the hurdle approach I nearly always use a chelating agent, usually EDTA. My water is both distilled and deionized, if I should believe supplier and the manufacturers label. If I check the pH I know it’s at least distilled, it’s way more acidic than tap water.