Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Skin W/O emulsion stabilization

  • W/O emulsion stabilization

    Posted by shiva on August 18, 2018 at 7:09 am

    hi every body
    I have formulated a w/o hand cream with sorbitan monooleate as emulsifier. I prepared it in 70 to 75 degrees centigrade with a homogenizer in 10000 rpm. the emulsion looks consistent at first but after about 1 month in room temperature the emulsion breaks down. how can i work with this emulsifier to obtain an emulsion with high shelf life?
    tnx a lot

    ngarayeva001 replied 5 years, 3 months ago 11 Members · 24 Replies
  • 24 Replies
  • belassi

    Member
    August 18, 2018 at 2:45 pm

    We are not telepathic, how do you expect us to be able to make suggestions if you provide no information?

  • chemist77

    Member
    August 18, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    @Belassi another advantage to be here, have to learn telepathy now. About time!!!???

  • shiva

    Member
    August 19, 2018 at 4:38 am

    excuse me for my ignorance but what do you mean by information? which kind of information do you need

  • Sibech

    Member
    August 19, 2018 at 11:18 am

    You have not provided any information on the formulation.

    how much emulsifier?, what is the oil phase?, any gelling agents? the list goes on. Basically, show your formula as it is, otherwise no-one will have a chance to help.

  • shiva

    Member
    August 20, 2018 at 5:36 am

    Yes, you are right! thanks for your kind recommendation.
    the formulation of the cold cream consists of:

    petroleum jelly
    wax
    preservative
    sorbitan oleate

    at the beginning the emulsion is OK and it passes centrifuge test (10 min in 3500 rpm).the cream viscosity is quite high but desired. but its shelf life is very low especially in higher temperatures. Changing ingredient percentage didn’t work.
    it would be my pleasure to hear your suggestions

  • em88

    Member
    August 20, 2018 at 6:52 am

    What is the water %? 
    What about adding lanolin?

  • amitvedakar

    Member
    August 20, 2018 at 10:19 am

    @shiva   post full formula with %

  • shiva

    Member
    August 21, 2018 at 4:37 am

    the water is about 75 percent. about other ingredients: i tried different percentages but i couldn’t get any stable formula so i didn’t achieve any fixed formula!! i used different ratios of petroleum jelly:wax but it didn’t work and i also changed the amount of sorbitan oleate from 0.5 up to 3 percent and the same result!!! I guess i may need a stabilizer in my formula but i dont know what it can be
    there is no lanolin in it. all the ingredients are those written in former messages.

  • em88

    Member
    August 21, 2018 at 6:43 am

    If water is 75% than, you are making an o/w emulsion and sorbitan oleate will not stabilize the emulsion since it is a w/o emulsifier with low HLB value. 
    You should add in your emulsifying system polysorbate as well. caluclate the required HLB for the oil fase and than add 2-5% emulsifying system (polysorbate and sorbitan oleate) in your emulsion. 

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    August 21, 2018 at 3:59 pm

    W/O emulsion is that one has 60% or more of oils .. 

  • Sibech

    Member
    August 21, 2018 at 7:47 pm

    You can make a water in oil formulation as that by choosing a what’s called a high internal phase emulsifier - Alchemy (previously alpha chem) have one called HIPEgel Aqua - it bears mention that it is not an emulsion in classical understanding but more of a polygonal network of droplets.

    https://alchemy-ingredients.com/products/high-internal-phase-emulsions/hipegel-aqua/hipegel-aqua-1

  • microformulation

    Member
    August 21, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Honestly, you can’t say an emulsion is O/W or W/O based on a percentage of net water. You must see the entire Formula as there are ways to make high internal water phases. It is not so simple.

  • em88

    Member
    August 22, 2018 at 6:55 am

    @Microformulation I’m sure this is not that case. Anyway, do you mind sharing a few articles regarding emulsification of high amounts of water (over 50%) in w/o emulsion?

  • microformulation

    Member
    August 22, 2018 at 12:58 pm
    While holding my coffee in one hand and typing with the other, it took me all of 3 minutes to find a sample W/O starting Formula where the water is at 73.5% yet it is still a Water in Oil Emulsion. If you search the Forum, I can recall at least one thread regarding the fallacy of using the water to qualify the type of emulsion. Making a W/O emulsion is harder but there are NUMEROUS emulsifiers for this purpose AND you can even use the HLB to create a W/O emulsion. As for documents, there are far too many to cite.
  • bill_toge

    Member
    August 22, 2018 at 8:17 pm
    the notion that the nature of an emulsion is determined by the percentage of water (weight, volume or molar percent?) is a surprisingly long-lived urban myth that flies in the face of actual evidence, and the laws of thermodynamics, and is cited as fact without anyone actually thinking about how or why it works

    a few months ago I made a thread debunking it in detail

  • shiva

    Member
    August 23, 2018 at 5:29 am

    thanks a lot
    all the discussions here raise another debate: if I reduce the amount of water, is the emulsion more stable? but actually it wasn’t!!!

    Making a stable w/o emulsion seems a little bit challenging. I will apply all of your recommendations and it will be my pleasure if you introduce other efficient emulsifiers for making HIPEs. (low-cost ones are more desirable)
    thank you all.

  • em88

    Member
    August 23, 2018 at 6:40 am

    @microformulation, that is because you knew to to look for. Still thanks :)
    Have you ever used ABIL® WE 09?

  • shiva

    Member
    August 23, 2018 at 9:08 am

    no i have not. i will try it if i find it in my country’s market. Most of the times i have trouble finding the professional chemicals

  • microformulation

    Member
    August 23, 2018 at 11:52 am
    I used the product once for a very similar product. What I recall most is that it was a very process dependent Formulation.
    As @@Bill_Toge pointed out, we had a thread on this topic months ago.
  • RDKOXYNERGY

    Member
    November 2, 2018 at 9:50 pm

    Abil are excellent for Water in Oil, I use only these. You can even make water Drop creams with up to 90% water.

    But add 3% isohexadecane… it gives very good stability to water in Oil emulsions.

  • doreen

    Member
    November 4, 2018 at 4:44 pm

    @em88
    I have made W/O creams with 80% water! It’s just very important to add the water phase to the oil phase and not vice versa.

    https://betaknowledge.ulprospector.com/6657/pcc-silky-smooth-creams-creating-high-internal-phase-emulsions/

    Edit: I see it’s already been mentioned. I overlooked the fact that only the last post is very recent. :/ sorry!

  • doreen

    Member
    November 4, 2018 at 5:03 pm
  • em88

    Member
    November 5, 2018 at 8:14 am

    Doreen said:

    @em88
    I have made W/O creams with 80% water! It’s just very important to add the water phase to the oil phase and not vice versa.

    https://betaknowledge.ulprospector.com/6657/pcc-silky-smooth-creams-creating-high-internal-phase-emulsions/

    Edit: I see it’s already been mentioned. I overlooked the fact that only the last post is very recent. :/ sorry!

    Very interesting video.
    Seppic products are great, but are expensive. 
    Did you use easynov for your cream?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-IWZz7Go4

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    November 5, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    Off topic but does anyone know any suppliers who sell easinov for crafters (small amount)? I have a couple of seppic producs from lotioncrafter, but they do not have easinov.

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