DAS
Forum Replies Created
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Is there a reason you are not using ethanol?. You won’t be able to mask the pungent IPA odor, no matter how much fragrance you use.
If ethanol is not an option ask your suppliers for a low foam tensioactive. A water soluble defoamer would be easy to get and incorporate at low cost. -
No shear, low speed mixing with anchor blade with scrappers is the standard. Otherwise aeration is a nightmare.
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It’s safe, although you already have high asm. I wouldn’t want that near my eyes.
@Mayday yes, it’s safe. In fact major brands use HCl and NaOH to adjust pH.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=182.1057https://incidecoder.com/ingredients/hydrochloric-acid
Sometimes Cosing db is handy: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.simple
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If you follow GMP, you shall calibrate and certify your scales yearly. This is done by a company that has the equipment, knowledge and capability to extend that certification.
So basically, if you need to work with those standards you will have to pay for the maintenance, calibration and certification. If you don’t, then it will be much cheaper to buy those generic chinese. You are making soap, you won’t notice a difference in 1 or 2 more or less grams.
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Cetrimonium Chloride has a safety limit for leave in, and you are way over it. Besides it does the same as the BTMS, i’d remove it. Anyway, I don’t know for how long it will hold that much oil load, but usually leave-ins don’t need that much. Here are 2 guide formulas from Croda and Elementis so you see the difference.
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Interesting. @PhilGeis what would you use to prevent this?. I’d go for something like imdz urea.
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There’s nothing harmful in that composition. Those are approved materials for cosmetics and considered safe. By definition a cosmetic will not interfere in your health in any way.
You certainly can try to replicate the product and adapt the formula, but I doubt you will get the same result. Someone spent time and money to achieve that balance, if they could do the same with what’s considered “natural” or “healthier” you would see it on a shelf.
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Yeah… no.
There are reasons why the industry follows GMP. Regardless of what might or might not happen, you should have a method of production and follow it. If you start changing your manufacturing process because you didn’t feel like you should follow a protocol, the result will be a different batch every time, eventually something will go wrong and you won’t be able to know why. That’s bad business.
Toxins come from living things, so your product can’t decompose into toxins. Now, if you don’t follow GMP and your product is poorly preserved, you could end up with a microorganism that will eventually release toxins.
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Depends on the nature of the product. In most cases high pressure wash and ethanol+pcmx.
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Lamellar gel networks.
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Keep strong oxidizers away from any equipment. Just to be clear, stainless is not stainless, it will oxidize, specially if you attack the metal with bleach. 316 might be able to take the damage a little longer due to it’s composition, but in the end you’ll end up with rust and pores.
There are many options for disinfection, sodium hypochlorite happens to be the cheapest. Also it depends what you are disinfecting. For example, for plastic containers we use a solution of ethanol and pcmx. For surfaces like walls and floors we use benzalkonium chloride. Here you can read more on low level disinfection.Regarding the equipment, honestly, is all about your budget. If you can and want to buy pharmaceutical grade equipment that’s great, but really unnecessary for cosmetics. As long as you comply your local regulations, just buy what you can. Your money will be best invested elsewhere.
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I’d like to see a debate regarding ethics and the moral limits of cosmetic industry.
The cosmetic industry has been for the last decades based on novelty, short product life cycles and a lot of marketing. That, and considering that it’s pretty much a self regulated industry makes a dangerous combination. Consumers have accustomed to this cycle and now demand new, more, less, better, leading to a vicious cycle. Nowadays it won’t cut just a new design or a better bottle, so claims began to be shady, asterisks smaller, and the line between claim and deception is blurry.
For example, a company makes a new shampoo and includes 0.005% argan oil and makes a claim, is it considered deceptive?. Should be?. Sometimes is considered a way of funding R&D to make better and safer products, but is morally correct?.
Anyway, I’d love to hear a debate about this, the art of implying without saying has allowed the industry to grow, and I’d like to know what’s the perspective from inside the lab, the marketing and R&D regarding this. Based on your experience i’m sure you have a lot to say @Perry, and it would be nice to hear from other areas too.
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Define big. If by big we are talking about companies that will have over 5% market share, then yes, they do everything by the book. Specially because most of them are multinationals that could be a country on their own. Although is not a rule. I’d say it depends on how well defined is the structure and business plan, what internal protocols they follow, and how those protocols are enforced. For what I’ve seen, the small companies that will follow a strict methodology and high quality standards are those that start as pharmaceuticals and for some reason end up making cosmetics.
That being said, it’s not about the company size, it’s about how many marketers they have. I’ve heard evilness spreads exponentially every time a marketer is hired, like a coliform on agar.
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The first thing i’d remove is the Optiphen.
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Changing the angle of the axis, adding baffles and increasing the temp during mixing might help. Just asking the obvious, but can’t you just sit on it for a few hs?.
Anyway, you haven’t given much info to work with, like batch size, viscosity, process, and specially equipment. Ultimately, before making any investment or adaptation, you could hire a process engineer to consult. Most likely, making that investment will save your company a lot of time, and time is money.
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Hardly, my guess is to prevent agglomeration when pouring SLES in water, specially if it’s cold process. Done in two stages to keep the viscosity low to prevent aeration.
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A few years ago I was paying a visit to a supplier. While we were talking I saw a pallet of egds, and remembered I had to buy a pearlizer. I asked if he had any, or if they could make a quick batch. The owner told me it was one of the longest to process and tricky raw materials they made. What I thought to be a simple mixing process happened to be a lot more complicated.
Raw material manufacturers keep their process secret, I doubt you will be able to find anything usefull online given that this kind of information is usually well paid. Im not saying that you shouldn’t try, but I think it will take you a few months to come up with a decent formula.
Btw, why laureth 10? my best guess is because is nonionic, good emulsifier, compatible with pretty much anything, temperature doesn’t affect it and its cheap.
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Sure, but it won’t work with an anionic carbomer.
Besides, for effectiveness it’s recommended to formulate a mix of surfactants. If you check prospector you will find lots of similar formulas, mainly for hand wash and surface cleaners.
It’s a good disinfectant, we know it works and it’s cheap, go for it.
@ozgirl sure, but not against this virus. This one hasn’t been tested yet. We are using the information we know of other similar viruses, and the data regarding bzc is contradictory, at least the papers i’ve read.
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Sure, but the same applies to pretty much anything. It’s Lisa’s rock for tigers, if the consumer wants to buy that magic he will. That’s the easy consumer, but the thing is marketing is permanently focused on selling bullshit to everyone. They mislead and confuse within that huge gray line that defuses and stretches every day. If I say my shampoo has the power of mango or whatever to detangle, the consumer won’t know the functional ingredient it’s a quat. It’s almost lying and certainly omitting the truth.
But regarding your question I think EOs are freaking expensive, and better left in the hands of my perfumist. The only useful ones I ever used are pine and citronella, and stability is a bitch.
It’s easy to blame the consumers, but the reality is people think they work because marketers spend billions on half lies to lead people to think it works, let’s not pretend otherwise.
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First, there is a key factor that you need to understand. This is a new virus, therefore the information we have is limited. Governments and companies have to study the virus to know more, and that won’t happen for at least a year. The big companies don’t have access to the virus just like that, there are protocols to follow and that takes time. Meaning we don’t know shit and we won’t for a while, as simple as that.
What we know is that there are similar viruses that have been studied, therefore we use what we know about them. That doesn’t mean it will all work the same. Will this coronavirus be as resistant to ethanol? We don’t know. Will this coronavirus give us contradictory results when tested against benzalkonium chloride? we don’t know. Will following formulation guides for a similar virus be effective? WE DONT KNOW. But that’s the best we got, so that’s what we are doing. Mostly to avoid spreading fear amongst the consumers, imagine the panic if we say “we can’t assure anything”.
So we use what we know. What’s that?. That this one’s a fatty, meaning surfactants will work. Will it kill the virus? no in a short period of time, but it helps. So the important thing is to follow the good practices to mecanically remove it, wash your hands, don’t touch your face, and most important don’t be around people. Stay at home, that’s the best we got, and what’s 100% efficient and proven.
The rest is psychological, you don’t need hand sanitizer if you don’t go out, but people need to have it. It’s a placebo with an unknown level of efficacy. Good for us, sales spiked.
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Absolutely, that’s against the definition of cosmetic products.
Although, if you search the forum you will find plenty about soaping effect. Short answer, add dimethicone.
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Yes, they are OK. Let me put it this way, you will absorb more carcinogens by taking a deep breath in any city than the daily use of sulfates for 10 years. So why the demand you ask?. Marketing.
And of course, if you have doubts rely on trusted sources like this one.
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Just wondering, what’s “lowest speed”?.
You will get better answers if you share more about your setup and process. Without more information all I can add is to thicken it at the end.
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Unless you give your customers a tour around the lab I agree with Pharma.
Besides you risk having to upgrade lab equip more often. If you competitors do the same you risk having to spend a lot of money just because they got the X265 and you have the X264. IMO that strategy is a liability.
