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  • What cosmetic science topic would make a good debate?

    Posted by Perry on February 2, 2021 at 12:45 am

    Recently, we held a debate style treatment of Clean Beauty.
    You can see the replay here.  Clean beauty debate

    I liked the format and am now looking for ideas for another topic to cover in this debate style.

    Do you have any suggested topics?

    (We’re going to try to have something on Animal Testing in Cosmetics.)

    Perry replied 1 year, 12 months ago 15 Members · 23 Replies
  • 23 Replies
  • Perry

    Member
    February 8, 2021 at 5:08 pm

    @PhilGeis - Agreed. So someone can buy a product, not open it for 10 years and it’s supposed to still last just as long? Sure.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    February 8, 2021 at 3:26 pm

    How about PAO?  That one has always hacked me off.

  • Pattsi

    Member
    February 7, 2021 at 4:14 am

    I like @Pharma ‘s idea on cosmeceuticals
    and/or with penetration enhancers as subsection.

    But then it will loop back to @mhart123 ‘s topic on
    FDA needing tighter regulations on cosmetics vs. the regulations being sufficient as they are now 

  • Aziz

    Member
    February 7, 2021 at 3:52 am

    Importance of story telling products in cosmetics 💄 industry . 

  • Pharma

    Member
    February 6, 2021 at 8:01 pm
    What about cosmeceuticals? Where to draw the line between cosmetics and pharmaceuticals and/or should there be an intermediate category? I like the Japanese system of quasi drugs aka “mildly pharmaceutically active cosmetics”.
  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    February 6, 2021 at 6:53 am

    Sulfate-free surfactants vs traditional SLES/CAPB  could be a good one.

    Expanding topic in sunscreens: mineral vs non-mineral (my personal debate here is that mineral isn’t elegant but at least in theory can be reapplied less often).

    And I like @Microformulation’s idea on penetration enhansers. I was baffled with it when started formulating. It could be expanded to active ingredients in cosmetics: do they do what marketing claims or not? And penetration enhansers as subsection. 

  • Microformulation

    Member
    February 5, 2021 at 2:40 pm
    “Can we really increase penetration of Cosmetic products, and if so, should we?”
    “Do Botanicals deliver a Cosmetic benefit or are they marketing fluff?”
  • Perry

    Member
    February 5, 2021 at 2:37 pm

    @mhart123  - That’s a great idea!

  • mhart123

    Member
    February 5, 2021 at 2:33 pm

    FDA needing tighter regulations on cosmetics vs. the regulations being sufficient as they are now 

    How many times do you hear people say, like the good old EWG, that cosmetics aren’t regulated and that the FDA needs to do more to ensure cosmetic safety? 

    For example (copied from safecosmetics.org) - 

    The United States has much to learn from the EU example. The EU Cosmetics Directive (76/768/EEC) was adopted in January 2003 and most recently revised in 2013.  The EU law  bans 1,328 chemicals from cosmetics that are known or suspected to cause cancer, genetic mutation, reproductive harm or birth defects.  In comparison, the U.S. FDA has only banned or restricted 11 chemicals from cosmetics. Unlike the United States, EU law requires pre-market safety assessments of cosmetics, mandatory registration of cosmetic products, government authorization for the use of nanomaterials and prohibits animal testing for cosmetic purposes
    https://www.safecosmetics.org/get-the-facts/regulations/international-laws/#:~:text=The%20EU%20law%20bans%201%2C328,restricted%2011%20chemicals%20from%20cosmetics.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    February 5, 2021 at 3:24 am

    EVchem said:

    Something specifically on silicones would be nice, or other “problematic” ingredients like sulfates, parabens. Have people argue for the benefits vs consequences of using them.

    I agree.
    Something specifically on silicones would be nice.

  • ozgirl

    Member
    February 5, 2021 at 2:58 am
    You could do something about preservatives
    E.g. Products preserved using non-traditional (and natural) preservatives are just as safe as those using traditional preservatives.
    or “free from” claims
    E.g. “Free from” claims should be banned.
  • DesertInBloomCosmeticsLab

    Member
    February 5, 2021 at 12:44 am

    @Perry:

    Here are a couple of topics:

    (1)   Cosmetic Labelling 1% Rule:  Should it be eliminated to improve transparency on cosmetic labelling for consumers.

    The discussion point here is that under current labelling regulations companies can include only 1 drop of an ingredient, but put it as the very first ingredient at the 1% line leading consumers to surmise that the product contains more of this ingredient than an insignificant amount.

    (2)   Cosmetic Labelling Product LOI On Company Website As Opposed To On Product Packaging

    The discussion point here is that to comply with the labelling regulations, companies often need to create an external package (box) to print all of the required information since it will not fit on the product container.  This creates enormous waste as these external boxes are generally thrown away upon opening.  If the labelling regulations only required a link to the company’s website if consumers wanted to check out the product ingredients it could eliminate substantial waste … printing inks, boxes, etc. 

  • DAS

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 11:21 pm

    I’d like to see a debate regarding ethics and the moral limits of cosmetic industry.

    The cosmetic industry has been for the last decades based on novelty, short product life cycles and a lot of marketing. That, and considering that it’s pretty much a self regulated industry makes a dangerous combination. Consumers have accustomed to this cycle and now demand new, more, less, better, leading to a vicious cycle. Nowadays it won’t cut just a new design or a better bottle, so claims began to be shady, asterisks smaller, and the line between claim and deception is blurry. 

    For example, a company makes a new shampoo and includes 0.005% argan oil and makes a claim, is it considered deceptive?. Should be?. Sometimes is considered a way of funding R&D to make better and safer products, but is morally correct?. 

    Anyway, I’d love to hear a debate about this, the art of implying without saying has allowed the industry to grow, and I’d like to know what’s the perspective from inside the lab, the marketing and R&D regarding this. Based on your experience i’m sure you have a lot to say @Perry, and it would be nice to hear from other areas too.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 8:02 pm

    I’m with Dr. Pratt - like that one, Perry.

  • Dr Catherine Pratt

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    yeah i like that one!! its just that i was reading some research and the testing is so unteliable & too expensive!!

  • Perry

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    I just thought of one.  How about…

    “Sunscreens are causing significant damage to coral reefs”  (Yea or Nay)

  • Perry

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 5:55 pm

    @”Dr Catherine Pratt” - Sure.

    Typically, a debate follows a format where a statement is made and one side argues the affirmative while the other argues the negative.

    So for the Clean Beauty debate we started with the following statement:

    Clean Beauty results in safer products for consumers.

    Then we had one person argue that this was true someone else argued it was false. The audience at the end voted on who “won” the debate.

    For your sunscreen testing the debate might be:

    Current sunscreen testing is adequate for predicting product effectiveness.

    Then we would have someone argue that it is not, and why. And someone argue that it actually is adequate.

    @EVchem - I like that. I think we may be able to get a debate on Sulfates and whether sulfate free is better.

  • EVchem

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 5:26 pm

    Something specifically on silicones would be nice, or other “problematic” ingredients like sulfates, parabens. Have people argue for the benefits vs consequences of using them.

  • Dr Catherine Pratt

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 5:00 pm

    can you elaborate? i also would love a debate about sunscreen testing:
    of each test & how reliable they are? 

  • Perry

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    @”Dr Catherine Pratt” - Interesting topic but what are the debate sides?

  • Dr Catherine Pratt

    Member
    February 4, 2021 at 3:52 pm
    What about ingredients that consumers want in their cosmetics post Covid?
    like more preservative, or anti-bacterials etc.
  • Benz3ne

    Member
    February 2, 2021 at 3:50 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    Definition of and benefit “natural”.

    That would be a good one.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    February 2, 2021 at 10:56 am

    Definition of and benefit “natural”.

  • Pattsi

    Member
    February 2, 2021 at 7:50 am

    Is it possible to do a repeat of “Clean beauty debate”?
    But with the consumer prospective so it could be “Communicate with your consumers debate”.

    If you can get an opinion from the consumer side like from youtuber GURU(?) i.e. Hyram or Sedona Christina … etc. or Vogue or Harper’s bazaar personel, having them join the debate and if having the debate feature in their channels that would be great since they have quite a big follower so the massage from cosmetic scientist can reach more people.

    or a non-cosmetic/skincare youtuber to represent a pure consumer side without bias.

    It’s just a random idea.