[Cinema]

@ngarayeva001 - Yes, that is what I got as well. and hopefully, it will work better too. Thanks

[Cinema]

@gordof thanks for that- in fact I was thinking of the same. Reading more about Optiphen plus- it is heat sensitive till 80 degrees- so was thinking of adding to water phase after heating and checking temps and then slowly add to oil phase. 

[Cinema]

@ProfessorHerb
thanks for the reply and I will keep on working on all the suggestions above

[Cinema]

@Pattsi thanks for the insight. I would definitely try adding Optiphen plus slowly. Stearic acid was meant to be co emulsifier/ thickener with the Olivem 900. Can try a different low HLB emulsifier to support Olivem (I just love the feel that Olivem gives with this)- as I said the emulsion comes around beautifully till I add the preservative. Thanks for the link and I will try out some variations too. 

[Cinema]

@Graillotion
You are too funny Thanks though.
@ Pattsi @MarkBroussard
@Paprik @Microformulation - any suggestions 

[Cinema]

Oh and sorry- pH is usually 5-5.5 - so def < 6 for the optiphen plus

[Cinema]

@Graillotion
Thanks for the reply. Oh I didn’t print the formula as I know that a lot of people had issues with Optiphen plus and I was wondering if people had tried any specific methodology.   So here goes the formula:-
It is a water in oil emulsion
Phase A
Shea butter - 12 %
Cocoa butter- 12%
Sunflower oi-15%
Almond oil - 12% 
Olivem 900- 8.25%
Stearic acid- 2 %

Phase B- DW- QS 
Magnesium sulfate - 0.5 %
Sodium gluconate - 0.5%

Phase C
Corn starch- 0.5%

Phase D
EO- 1 %- Blend of lavender, patchouli, sage and lemongrass
Tocopherol- 1%

Phase E
Optiphen plus - 1%

Heated phase A and B separately.
Gentle poured phase B into A- waiting for small portions to mix completely given it is w/o emulsion. Use hand blender at low shear. 
Put in Phase C
By the time it is coming down to < 50%- it has started to thicken nicely- with nice glistening sheen
added EO and Vit E- kept on blending- still continues to thicken
Once < 40 deg, added optiphen plus ( now I stop stirring when I dump it in- maybe should keep blending)- the viscosity drops as said above. 
I blend with hand blender at high shear and after a few minutes it does come back to a thick and smooth finish. By the next day it is soft, malleable hard as a body butter. 

so here it is

[Cinema]

@samsal, HEC, xanthum gum, HPC, siligel and solagum are fairly good alternatives. I have also tried Gelmaker NAT which is about 61% plant origin and sustainable. Hope this helps. I don’t like the simy textures from individual gums but combinations like siligel and solagum work really well

[Cinema]

@pharma @Graillotion- makes me feel re assured- thanks again for your pearls of wisdom:-)

[Cinema]

thanks @MarkBroussard, it was very informative and answered with precision.

[Cinema]

Thank You all indeed!! I am one of the newest members I guess it is so true  that learning can never end - but for that you need willing students and honest teachers. Here’s to boundless knowledge and journeys of quest to taken to be taken together- Happy 4th of July!

[Cinema]

@Oladoo from what I have read in the past, hemp oil is the best for oily acne prone skin- it balances the sebum production and it has the beneficial ratio of oleic, linoleic and gamma linoleic acids (GLA) that are needed. Second best is grape seed oil. 

[Cinema]

Thanks @MarkBroussard , I knew the percentage rule overall but I wasn’t aware of the rule regarding combination products, thanks
 

[Cinema]

MarkBroussard said:

Jiemorel Plus

Technical Datasheet | Supplied by Wuhu Huahai Biology Engineering

Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Propylene Glycol. It is a combination of IPBC pre-dissolved in propylene glycol for ease of use. This combination exhibits a synergistic preservative effect which reduces the total active preservative level necessary. It provides complete broad spectrum preservation against gram-positive, gram-negative bacteria, yeast and mold. It is compatible with most cosmetics raw materials. Used in variety of leave-on and rinse-off personal care formulations.

I think based on what you said, the first question @Law posed likely had misspelled Germal Plus powder/ liquid. 

[Cinema]

@Graillotion
@MarkBroussard
      Hey guys, so is this true ( I am curious primarily for the US) that for each ingredient you have to list according to percentage ) and I am talking emulsifiers and combination preservatives. Coz if it is true, that means we would need to get the individual percentages of all combination emulsifiers and preservatives- is that accurate to say?

[Cinema]

saraahsan said:

Cinema said:

I am not into lipsticks and all- but just a thought- maybe switch oils / butters to the kind with a longer shelf life maybe or replace aome with eaters- along with all the other maneuvers 

i am adding castor oil plus caprylic capric 

castor oil has a shorter shelf life that most of plant butters- most of them being in the 2 years range as acompared to 1 year for the castor oil- 2 years if hydrogenated- other options are softisan 378 (fantastic for lipsticks) has a shelf life of 3 years and is soft solid at room temp

[Cinema]

I am not into lipsticks and all- but just a thought- maybe switch oils / butters to the kind with a longer shelf life maybe or replace aome with eaters- along with all the other maneuvers 

[Cinema]

@Pharma
thanks but it is the same in US as well. But it all comes down to, if getting clearances for something like this is going to be a pain - it is likely not worth it.

[Cinema]

@Pattsi thanks 

[Cinema]

thanks

[Cinema]

@Graillotion @MarkBroussard
Interesting that you guys answer just at the same time. Funny thing, I actually had a chat today while on a manufacturer’s site- the lady was real nice and said that she will check with her manufacturers and see if they would get a sample to an individual. All good, she took my contact info etc and I even offered that I can pay for the sample too……. till she told me the smallest batch of sample they would give out is 25Kgs!!!!   Yikes- I said absolutely no!!! Anyways then I asked as to when do they think their product will be in stores- apparently has been tested and all and on their site since 2018= and she said real soon hopefully!! So , that was fun  

[Cinema]

Microformulation said:

No, not unless you have the testing and documentation for the “standard” and testing for each individual lot (batch produced). Buyers can and will ask for these documents. They ensure consistency and safety in botanicals for example. Your “glycerites” are untested. The testing can be costly. Just buy standardized ingredients.

Thanks. that helps and saves me from spending more hours on this exercise- even though I loved doing it.

[Cinema]

jemolian said:

Tremella is quite the premium humectant to use, so i’d recommend adding it only as a small percentage as a label claim ingredient unless you are using it in a higher percentage for specific purposes. 

Based on patch testing at 0.1% or 0.2% powder (can’t really recall the actual amount), in the short term, i didn’t seem to do much for my skin. 

You can take a look at my dropbox folder to see if you find anything interesting since there are some data from different manufacturers. You can download it to keep them in case i move them away in the future. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kipeuwo1k67wi9y/AACm5tZN1Lx2nwaQvYE4Z8Voa?dl=0

Mine is the powder version from Shanghai Huiwen. 

Thanks for the information @jemolian - I will check it out. yes, I have used it as only 0.1 to 0.5 % only.

[Cinema]

@Graillotion- soaping I encountered early on and figured out how to overcome- not that it can’t happen again. But yeah I have mostly had higher viscosity and am usually trying ways to bring it down.I also had a question- what if there is an ingredient that manufacturers only ship as sample to businesses but I want to try- is there a way to ask around?

[Cinema]

@Pattsi Thanks and is it ok if I tag you or @Graillotion for any future troubleshooting ?