[LaurenB]

Thank you both.  @johnb I am interested with the Allantion at this level to test if it will benefit wound healing, but as you say it could be as effective at lower levels. I will look at Akema. 

@MarkBroussard super advice, I will try this tomorrow. 

[LaurenB]

Thanks Bill_Toge.  Yes I have ordered some BASF products, they should do the trick.  I’m trying to teach myself the KISS method and not get carried away with marketing.

[LaurenB]

Re read that today @johnb and yes apologies for rambling so vaguely.  Likely too much coffee.

Ok, simple spray shine liquid spray, Cyclopentasiloxane, Isododecane, ethanol, dye.  I dont have exact % as I’m really just tinkering and using the dollop system atm.  Feel like I’m a bit overloaded with both product variety and advertising claims for a lot of fixative polymers, I probably need some suggestions for fixatives to start some more research and testing that would fit into this simple mix.  I need transfer resistance and shine most importantly, and flexible hold so as not to make very fine hair crunchy.

Cheers

[LaurenB]

Fantastic, thanks so much for the advice.  Yes I like to stick to the manufacturers guides, I couldnt understand why it was in quite a few formulations and being heated up to 85deg c.  
Hopefully my shear mixer will be enough to activate it.  
Apologies Perry, I should have said the INCI name also, I get carried away with shorthand at times.

[LaurenB]

Thank you all for your input, some great stuff to think about,look up and so much to learn.
Yes MOQ is low, I’m only looking at single 200kg drums atm, so thanks Perry for the pros &cons, will certainly have to weigh that up.  johnb thanks for the heads up re quality, I am really after something for very dry/ethnic hair so perhaps the premade bases might not be the go.
Such a pain as storage (for even more raw materials) is limited for me atm, so is time & equipment lol  Guess I’m looking for a bit of a cheat with a pre made base as I cant do MOQ on a ready to package product at this stage.

[LaurenB]

OK… well a very cold glass of SSB has helped me sort my own blonde questions, should have thought of that FIRST!

Can anyone help with a strong but flexible film former or plasticiser?  Silicone/ester or ethanol soluble.  I’m looking for something that does not dry.  I dont have a lot of experience with these materials.

[LaurenB]

@Fastfiller
Definately think in this day and age with so many small niche brands that there is definitely a strong market for this. Our small company would use this service… we are stuck between too big to DIY, too small to afford huge 10-20k runs.  Apply this over at least a dozen products, with the small business owner doing a multitude of jobs and you have a ready made market.
Price wise - unfortunately you have to be competitive with Chinese & Asian contract manufacturers, if you are US based and only looking at certain markets it would be ok, but worldwide you have to factor in currency conversion in your pricing.

We would pay a good price for a quality product, especially with filling tubes, but it would need to be cheaper than buying pre sealed tubes, putting a label on and employing someone to manually fill. To play devils advocate… It is a great idea, but for the small business owner, profits are everything in a niche market that is ever changing, so I wonder if there would be enough profit in it for you.

[LaurenB]

Thanks Guys.  I’m begining to think the Hydrogenated Polyisobutene version of Versagel is going to be more trouble than the claim is worth   The Versagel M is fine to work with but I lose my MO free claim.  Have used Polybutene in samples, but to get the result I need ends up with a cloudy sample.
I LOVE the Zeniglos, but it’s price heavy for this product in the quantities that I can buy for short runs.  I’ve experimetned with Polyamide in the past, does anyone know a distributor for this now?

[LaurenB]

Hi Candace
I cant comment on what is ‘typical’ in the industry, but I would not be disclosing formulas without a client actually purchasing them. I do the something similar to you and when a formualtion is  requested for export, I contact the relevant authority to get the exact guideline on what they need to register that product for customs approval and I do that paperwork myself. 
Your Organic product may need docs to actually prove you use certified organics but this can certainly be done without disclosing exact formulas. There are ingredients that have controls on their usage and the % as well, and many countries are different with levels of use and what they will accept through customs. 
If I was your client and asked you for an exact formula AND your supplier list then there is nothing stopping me from finding another manufacturer to make that product, unless you have an ironclad contract or patent on your formula.
Do plenty of research before you decide.

[LaurenB]

I use this in a hair serum (silicone based with sml % natural oil) to keep it crystal clear as its packaged in a clear PET bottle. I did find without it the serum would go slightly hazy over time when left out in the sun & elements. I think it also kicks up the shine just a touch.

[LaurenB]

Thanks chemicalmatt.  Yes absolutely there is a huge range - why I’m confused.  I did read a study where the peptide was used with water/glycine/lysine as dilutent at up to 10%, then this was added at a percentage to a formulation. I know this substance can be detrimental if over used so I want to be careful.  I’ll keep researching, will keep your 0.1% suggeston in mind though and see if this is around a good figure.
Thank you for your advice

[LaurenB]

AH!  Bobzchemist…. thank you.  I was not really thinking liquid makeup, but now that has given me a clue where to start.
Yes I would love to get pre made dispersions, I will start searching.

[LaurenB]

Thank you manstra. I will have a play with those ingredients, I think I have some here.

No further news re the Pemulen, waiting for it to arrive. Then I will post my results. Thanks again for the advice! Even getting pointed in the right direction to research is fantastic and very appreciated

[LaurenB]

Thank you both for you comments.  I have been reading all the helpful info on emuslions through this forum. 
Thank you Bill_Toge for the info re rheology modifier.  I will go and study this for a while. I do have some gums that I didnt think to try. I will have to experimetn more once Ive read a lot!

Thankyou Bobzchemist, I will buy som of the TR-1 and have a go with it.

[LaurenB]

HairmanPhd

I make this for my hair   As per Chemist77 suggested.  Gum blend 1501, add everything else to it, it works well if you add ingredients in the right order. C12-15 Alky Benzoate is a hero!

[LaurenB]

Hi, Rhiannon here   ChicoB is my log in, its my little min pin side kicks name, I cant forget it!
Im not a Cosmetic Chemist, just a home crafter, but I love to learn & experiment.  One of these days I’d like to venture into a small business.
I’m interested in hair care, colour cosmetics and in general lotions and potions.

[LaurenB]

Thank you @chemicalmatt

[LaurenB]

Thank you @ketchito