Chemist79
Forum Replies Created
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Thanks Sibech
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Thanks Pharma, do you know of any published literature on this?
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Bump it up and try both 0.8 and 1.0%, I find PE 9010 to be a bit temperamental at levels of 0.6 or lower
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@SheilaInBoston you could try copper PCA
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Thanks @Bobzchemist I have tried TEA, AMP & NaOH all with no success with the exception of Borax nothing works as well Calcium Hydroxide so far. I have tried 80C and I don’t think a higher temperature is feasible for full production given our mixing vessel capability. However I think @Bill_Toge may be onto something regarding forming the emulsion at the lowest temperature possible.
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Swap the TEA for AMP and you should get a nice clear gel
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Try filling when it is not too hot, around 5 degrees C above the setting point. If stability at high temperatures is poor try including a wax with a higher melting point. Hope this helps.
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Thanks @Bill_Toge I will give this a try, much appreciated
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I have tried Glyceryl Stearate and Glyceryl Stearate SE the Glyceryl Stearate works best. I have tried this in ranges of 0.4 to 1.5% no improvement on freeze thaw but the higher the concentration the waxes the rub in and the further away from the benchmark it becomes. I have tried Stearic Acid between 0.3% and 1.0% no improvement on freeze thaw and no real noticeable difference to the aesthetics.
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I have petroleum jelly in the formula, as borax and it’s salts have been listed by ECHA as substances of very high concern I would like to avoid there use
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Thanks @Bill_Toge unfortunately we don’t have a colloid mill just a Silverson homogeniser. I will try increasing the Lanolin Alcohol, I believe the Brylcreem INCI to be correct but think there is some clever labelling after the 1% threshold. I will try 0.99% Lanolin Alcohol. Do you know if Lanolin Alcohol performs better than just Anhydrous Lanolin? I have tried standard Lanolin at 1% but no major improvement on freeze thaw.
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Thanks for the feedback I realise there are no traditional emulsifiers. The formulation is based on the saponification of beeswax with calcium hydroxide which is entirely possible. If I add emulsifiers then this changes the whole feel of the product and it doesn’t break down on the hair. I do have Stearic Acid in the formula, Brylcreem uses Behenic Acid which I am struggling to source.
The INCI for Brylcreem which I am trying to match is Aqua, Paraffinum Liquidum, Cera Alba, Hydrogenated Rapeseed Oil, Petrolatum, Glyceryl Stearate, Parfum, Limonene, Linalool, Citral, Geraniol, Benzyl Alcohol, Lanolin Alcohol, Calcium Hydroxide, Behenic Acid, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Hydrolyzed Wheat Starch.
We have fully stability tested the benchmark and there are no stability issues on freeze thaw or at elevated temperatures.The benchmark contains no emulsifier and uses calcium hydroxide to saponify beeswax to stabilise the emulsion so I was wondering if it could be in the processing.
If anyone has any experience of this formulation type I would love to hear your thoughts, thanks.
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I checked my correspondence with the supplier, I was wrong the reason they said they couldn’t use benzoate and sorbate was due to discolouring and an increase in viscosity during their stability trials not Ammonia release. As rightly pointed out this was the reason they couldn’t preserve it with high pH
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Appears that I have been misguided by my supplier, thanks for the correct information
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I had a similar issue with the ALS we purchased which was MIT preserved. ALS is a tricky one as you can’t use the organic acids, the low pH required means Ammonia is released. We settled on phenoxyethanol and caprylyl glycol. Not sure where in the world you are based but the supplier is Zohar Dalia based in Israel so if you are in the EU and purchasing in large volume it could be an option.
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@johnb @Perry I would love to draw on your experience here regarding mixing method. I am formulating a Brylcreem type product but I am struggling with stability in particular temperature cycling/ freeze thaw. The current method I have been using is heat oil, calcium hydroxide and waxes to 80C, heat water and water solubles to 50C. Add water phase to oil phase slowly with stirring only to form a pre-emulsion. At 50C add fragrance, antioxidant and extracts and mix for 5 minutes before transferring to a homogeniser and high speed homogenise until a thick, white, glossy emulsion is formed.
Any hints or tips would be greatly appreciated. @johnb I have messaged you separately with further information, I hope you don’t mind but given your experience here any advice would be fantastic, many thanks in advance.
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Hi Zink, if you add more glycerin I would expect this would give quite a sticky after feel (if this is a leave on product) and it won’t remove make up as well as Glycols which are excellent and cheap solvents.
If it is a leave on product I would strip your formula right back i’d suggest maybe just 1% active Decyl Glucoside, 1% Hexylene Glycol, 2% Glycerin, 0.2% Sodium Benzoate, 0.05% Potassium Sorbate, 0.05% Citric Acid (to pH 4.8 to 5.2), 0.05% active chelating agent. If you are using fragrance you could premix it with 1% Polysorbate 20 for a nice clear product.
I would probably replace the decyl glucoside with something like Polyglyceryl-4 Caprate (TEGOSOFT PC 41) which is a great product for this type of application.
If you are new to formulating this type of product or any type of product, I would always recommend http://www.ulprospector.com as a great source of information, it has some good starting formulations provided by the ingredients supplier. Just be aware though suppliers are trying to sell their ingredients so many formulations are over formulated. If a supplier says to use their ingredient at 10% try 5% first you will probably find the results are is good.
Or if you have access to the equipment you could always do some analysis on the leading brands combined with the principles of the ingredients listing you can make a pretty good educated guess on what their formula is and then build it back up with your own interpretation.
Good luck with your formulation.
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I think at such a low level it would be fine, I have developed many products over the years using this preservative system and never had any issues with yellowing
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You could try 0.2% Sodium Benzoate and 0.05% Potassium Sorbate and buffer down to pH 4.5 to 5.0 with Citric or Lactic Acid that should be plenty to preserve this type of product. You could also really streamline that formulation and save a lot of cost and still have a perfectly efficacious product.
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I would add a bit of hexylene or propylene glycol along with your surfactant
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Agree with chickenskin add more primary surfactant. The other option and it sounds crazy but it sometimes works depending on far over the salt curve you have gone but try adding water. Don’t forget always do a lab trial first.
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I would recommend taking a look at the Colipa guidelines for microbial management. It is free to download, link below:-
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I would recommend taking a look at the Colipa guidelines for stability testing of cosmetic products. It’s free to download, the link is below:-
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I think this is a perfectly acceptable question, time is precious in the modern world and there is a huge market for products with dual functionality. I saw some interesting euromonitor data recently that stated that moisturisation was the single most desired attribute for consumers purchasing “wash off” products and that over 50% of global “wash off” product launches in 2015 made some kind of moisturisation claim.
However moisturisation from a wash off product is difficult (and shouldn’t be confused with skin feel) the very nature of surfactants is to remove grease and dirt which would include natural skin lipids. Personally Glycerin would not be my choice I don’t believe it is substantive to the skin enough in a surfactant based product. I would go down the refatting route and would recommend trying Ceraphyl RMT or good old Lamesoft PO65.
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Peracetic Acid is an excellent choice as it naturally degrades