chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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I’ll suggest two strategies, albeit weak ones. Contact the Clariant or DSM distributor in your part of the USA (Univar I suspect) and ask about obtaining a pail quantity and expect to pay a premium for it. If it is a particularly esoteric item (like Fiflows) they will often have a partial drum in the warehouse or lab being used for samples and pilot quantities. This normally will not work for commodity items. The other is to ask that same distributor if they - or you - can contact another customer purchasing the same item regularly and if they - or you - can ask them to sell you some. That worked for me in the past where I had a tight business relationship with the distributor and a cordial one with the other party. That party was happy to part with unused inventory at a nice profit. I streamlined the process by taking care of shipping costs and pick-up, even sending them the BOL to use. The less work for them the easier to help you.
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I would not make a paste but dissolve the SCI into water FIRST before any other material is added since that may serve as a primary emulsifier. Saves a big step there, right? Now, for the CAPB, that is trickier, you may want to add that slowly during the cool-down thermocline. CAPB is not an emulsifier but does carry free salt so don’t be too surprised if this separates then.
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@ayat Lose that glycerin. All better now.
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@Makoto That ingredient is supplying virtually all the yield value (suspension) to your formula and few lipid dispersible materials can match its yield value. However silica or more specifically silica dimethyl silylate offers similar but not same suspension. Processing is a bear: heating and high shear mixing for 90 minutes before adding any pigments or minerals. That is the great value of those Bentone Gels, Elementis already did the difficult job for us!
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I’ve learned that some folks are using those same home presses for making bath bombs. Not expensive and very available (most are made in Turkey) though I have to think some modifications are needed to conform to each powder mold.
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Nope! Transcutol (ethoxydiglycol) is there as a glycol ether penetrating agent, also a nifty solvent, but has no surfactant properties. You will need either an alkali hydroxide to combine with all that oleic acid to form a soap or get rid of it altogether. Ethoxydiglycol is a nifty solvent as stated before plus the ethanol should help. Add a little water-soluble acid (lactic acid) to aid solvation with all those amino groups. This may not be creamy but will be a jelly.
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@oldman20 Are you attempting to make a stainless steel surface cleaner here? Sounds like it. Forget the NaCl vector, it will not help. Oxalic acid alone works well; beefed up with phosphoric even better.
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@iEngineerG Both of these metal stearates are often used to thicken oil mixtures, why we call them “oil soaps” sometimes. In pressed powders I believe their function is to act as binders, keeping those powders together. The sensorial aspect you perceive may be related to other components in the formulations but is still worthy of further discussion. If I knew more about color cosmetics I would start a thread here but that is one of my weak spots. #colorcosmetics
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<div>@cosscin Sometimes you can get these “starter workshops” for free if you know where to look. Peruse LinkedIn under hashtags like #cosmeticscience and you will find a wealth of tutorials. Here is one of mine recently re-edited and reposted as example. </div>
Formulation Chemistry: Crafting the Perfect Styling Gel with Great Curl Retention - 3V Sigma USA
3vsigmausa.com
Formulation Chemistry: Crafting the Perfect Styling Gel with Great Curl Retention - 3V Sigma USA
Join 3V Sigma USA in the applications lab to learn how to make a clear hair gel with superior hold and curl retention.
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@Shaghayegh Rapidgel EZ1 will thicken glycol systems but you will need a very small amount of water (2.0%) to activate it and achieve a clear gel otherwise you’ll need to mix all day.
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@Sapphire That Sunspheres product will not have any effect on viscosity. I’m unsure where you learned this but it is incorrect.
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@BeautyScience Critique? No comedogenicity seen, hydration adequate as is. Now about that preservation….no acidulant cited for activating the sodium benzoate, but use of parabens greatly admired. Also must note your order of addition appears to be, shall I say, odd.
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The issue you are having was mistaken by contributors to be that of incorporating your fragrance into a clear body wash system without clouding or opacifying that system. That discussion referred to formulation clarity (opposite of opaque) not “fragrance clarity.” Your viscosity problem will be best solved using Synthalen W600 acrylic polymer which should not be affected by 2.00% fragrance oil, but as I said: your foam sure will be. Oils crash foam. Always.
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None of those suggestions from @Formula73 will work here. Those Aecosolves are sodium lipid soaps and to add that much - especially in concert with the pricey Sepimax ZEN or any other acrylic (Sepimax being one of those) - will crash your viscosity down to the soup you are straining to avoid. The key problem here is viscosity build not so much fragrance solubilization, correct? Go with the W600 and add a nonionic such as PolySugaMulse D9 if fragrance clarity is a goal.
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@oldman20 That is the parameter for subjecting pharmaceutical products to stability analysis of the active API. Too often mistaken for same parameters for thermodynamic formulations such as ours. I suggest 42C maximum or 40C. Many personal care formulations will liquify at 45C, which negates the validity! Check samples every 30 days for physical integrity, appearance, pH, viscosity changes. Yes, 3 months accelerated stability roughly equates to 12 months at RT if not longer. Interpret results with objectivity: I have seen samples fail at 42C/60 days but were still intact six years later in their trade package.
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Well said @MarkBroussard. It should be universal knowledge by now regarding the antioxidant non-activity of the acetate but weirdly it is not. Even some of the suppliers don’t mention it. Go figure.
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@Shaghayegh the product benchmark you are looking to emulate is thickened by using the silioxane crosspolymer gum dispersions in D5 cyclomethicone produced by Dow, Shin-Etsu, Wacker…all. These gum blends start out at 4000 - 6000 cps then you dilute them with D5 and/or 200pf ethanol. You can research these and select one with a high viscosity range then go from there. In other words you do not thicken the serum, but you thin it down to get that result.
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Once again @ketchito is on the ball. Not all acrylate copolymers are same. You are using a LOT there at 12% (all are 30% solutions) so the pH is a factor. We recommend using the range pH 6.0 - 6.5 with Synthalen W600. DO NOT add any extra salt since the CAPB carries 5% NaCl itself. You should only need half that level of acrylate thickener and it will accommodate the fragrance oil too, even though that much oil - and the fixative with it - are a challenge for all thickening motifs not to mention foaming. Yeesh!
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Not a valid response from that Chinese supplier. This sounds like a scam.
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You will first need to DEL that EDTA since it will be useless there with all that Mg++, Al+++ ions from the bentonite dispersion. As has been stated in this blog many times before: always add your preservative first before adding any clays since most will adsorb the preservative when added post. I’ll also suggest adding more fungi-fighter to this, such as IPBC or the “dreaded” methylparaben. I hope @PhilGeis can weigh in here too. He is the expert.
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I have to echo @ketchito here: as always that choice depends on the chemistry of the delivery vehicle and other formula constraints. I should add that if you share that TDS with a supplier while asking for viable gum substitutes, they may remain mute should they not recognize a solution. At our company we are transparent with customers if we cannot offer them a fit. Best to help them move on and not waste their time.
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You are going to use an additional rheology gum resin with the xanthan gum already established? OR, are you to substitute each for the xanthan? I don’t think your wax will affect these at all, so leave it there if you wish. The rest appears sound to me. As for resin dispersion, I always disperse directly into as much water - and only water - as you can muster and mix/heat until fully hydrated. That Step A1 is totally unnecessary in my opinion. In the case of Veegum (Mg Al silicate) you’ll need to add to water only and apply a lot of shear for a long time before adding anything else. You won’t know how completely you hydrated that Veegum until you begin adding the oil phase.
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@formulatorterminator Yes, I’ve worked with RITA emulsifier blends including this one. It works quite well and is already built with fatty alcohol & GMS flaked. It is anionic so is compatible with carbomers, polysaccharide gums, but not so much with cationics and some amino acids. That pH range is only a guideline, you can take it higher to pH9 if needed.
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Whenever I hear of a drastic color change in something like this I look for the possible chromophore that would create that. In this case the aromatic benzoic acid comes to mind, otherwise…almost hate to suggest it…a nitrosamine (dangerous but colorful!) formed in combination with the amino functional group on panthenol? Hope not, but DEL the benzoate and see what happens.
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@Zoya We cannot offer much help without knowing the other ingredients, especially anything remotely volatile - such as water. If you stored inside a HDPE single-wall bottle during the ACC stability phase, you definitely lost some water.