[Cafe33]

“Reasonably Natural” - that should be a new category of products. 

Have you considered Tinogard TL or TT by BASF for your Vanillin? I was advised that the TL version would work well with Vanillin. 
 

[Cafe33]

What do you want to formulate with honey and what are the real benefits and claim benefits? 

Honeyquat is similar to Polyquats, not sure how that would be similar to honey other than in name.

[Cafe33]

That is great news, thanks. 

[Cafe33]

Glucam-20 is PPG-20 Methyl Glucose Ether. I have used it and it can get tricky as it dulls the scent. You have to start slowly.

I have a synthetic Vanillia fragrance and the composition shows many different fixatives used. So they do work together, but its not something I really understand all that well. 

You wont find too much info on Silicon Dioxide as a fixative for leave on products. I am not sure about that, my applications are almost exclusively wash off.

[Cafe33]

You know there is more to it than simply adding a fixative. 

The Carbomer is a good idea. It can be used as a film former in encapsulation. 

There are patents describing the encapsulation of fragrances using Carbomer in water and a small amount of surfactant (CAPB) at 1%. The fragrance oil is added under heavy homogenization to form small particles which can then be filtered (some how). 

You can use Cetyl Alcohol as a core material for your fragrance. Simply dissolve and cool very quickly. Usually a 3 to 1 ratio (Cetyl Alcohol to fragrance) is used. You can then add Carbomer at a 15-20% rate and activate it with some water under slow grinding. Think of wet granulation. I did this will some Orange EO and the scent is still very strong.

Not sure how you would add granules to a lotion however. This process worked well with Carbomer, not so much odor retention with PVP (30)

IPM added at 1-5%  of Fragrance Level
Glucam-20 1-5 %  of Fragrance Level (I find this one personally tricky as it dulls the scent easily)
Decyl Glucoside can also be considered a fixative according to some patents I read.

My personal favorite, dissolve the oil in Aerosil 200 (Silicon Dioxide). It is an unbelievable fixative. I made anhydrous products which have been sitting in open air and the smell is still strong after 3 months or so. Similar products not using Silicon Dioxide lost scent after about a week.

My only hesitation is where to add the Aerosil/Fragrance composition, oil phase or water phase. I have not concluded which is better. And when I try to read more lately my head hurts. lol

[Cafe33]

So I spoke too soon about the viscosity, I guess it takes some time to get thicker.

Belassi, I agree, 0.6% Lavender was overkill. I started with 0.1% but it still smelled very strongly of Alcohol. 

I thought about reaching for the Glucam but I am worried it will dull the scent. Am I correct to assume it could be a problem? 

Is Pemulen by Lubrizol possible for this application? I have it in stock and it seems to be available from a certain Mexican supplier.

[Cafe33]

What a coincidence, I made something similar today.

Phase A:

Q.S. - dH20
0.3% - Carbopol 940 
1.5% - Glycerine

Phase B

65% EtOH (96%) (Added Slowly under mixing)
0.6 % Lavender essential oil
0.3 % TEA 

(0.5% Lavender was more than enough to completely mask the smell of Alc)

Was not impressed with the thickness of the gel. Could it be from the excess lavender?

I have ultrez-20 and Pemulen in stock, I might try those. 

 

[Cafe33]

Thank you for your responses. 

Cst4Ms4Tmps4, the syndet bars I am making are staying solid even when incorrectly stored in the shower. I am simply looking for the best possible system. 

The Dove bar is a great starting point and you can find detailed description of its formulation and evolution in Chapter 4 of Soap Manufacturing Technology. 

I have tried Combo bars using Sodium Palmitate (10%). It was an interesting creation but I found that the bar gets mushy and runny much faster. It was certainly easier to press. 

The inherent problem is Glycerine. My purchased Sodium Palmitate contains 12% Glycerine, and even 1.2% in the syndet bar created a problem. 

I found that an emulsifier such as Polawax was a good replacement for Soap for creating a proper structure in a Syndet bar. Now I will need to find a powdered humectant other than d,l panthenol. The price is not such an issue as some of the Syndet bars will be facial cleansers. For Body bars, the sale price would be too high as the bars runs out too quickly. 

Sodium Lactate - 2% is what I use. I found 3% created some tackiness. 
   

[Cafe33]

Aerosil 200 is expensive. I have used it experimentally and it thickens CAPB quite well. It also thickens and gels Sweet Almond Oil, Jojoba Oil, Macademia Nut Oil and makes clear solutions of these oils and others. 

That being said, it is difficult to use without professional equipment and it is too expensive to use for something like shampoo. 

[Cafe33]

Well, I am looking for an emulsifier I can use. I have tried

Lanette N (90% cetearyl alcohol, 10% Sodium Cetearyl Sulfate) - Not a good skin feel/ glide and requires a high percentage. 

Polawax NF - excellent.  

Candellila Wax - Not an emulsifier but tried and it had the opposite effect, less cohesion and plasticity. 

The syndet in question contains high levels of Fatty Acids and Fatty Alcohols (25% not including emulsifier) with no issues with foaming. 
 
I also have on hand Euperlan 3000 by BASF - Glycol Distearate, Laureth-4, CAPB.

[Cafe33]

Wow, you are taking on quite an advanced project. First you can never use Glycerine in this formulation as it will bring water and kick start your effervescent reaction. Also, you have no business using water other than in small amounts as a binder followed by drying since it will also make your product unstable. 96% Ethanol is a more suitable binder. 

SLSa for some reason unknown to me also makes this kind of product unstable. It created many problems during bath bomb formulations. Surfactants in general usually have that effect. Also, decyl glucoside is nearly around 50% water. So that is also out. 

Olivem 1000 is not an easy emulsifier to use for beginners and it will not do what you are suggesting. 

Mashing up SCI noodles will not give you the same small particle size as the industrially manufactured powder. Also, the noodles tend to contain stearic acid which will not dissolve in water. 

To be honest, what you are aiming for is hardly feasible. If you are truly interested in continuing look at compressed solids formulations (Pharmaceutical Tablets). You would need readily soluble powdered surfactants like SLSa (Evoniks makes a powdered CAPB), Silicon Dioxide to increase cohesion and flow, and some form of super disintegrant that would dissolve the tablet almost instantly when added to water. You would also need a water soluble lubricant (not magnesium stearate). And you also have to think of thickness of the shampoo. It may require a form of cellulose or PVP, luckily those types of items are easily available as tablet excepients. The fragrance you use would also have to be encapsulated with a wall material that would be water soluble and already dissolved in a solubilizer.  

Anyway, sounds like fun. 

[Cafe33]

At what percentage does an ingredient concentration become insignificant in a formulation? Can 0.00001% of Argan Oil be added to a formulation and then be listed in the LOI? Where is the limit?

[Cafe33]

Mango Butter. I think it is highly under rated. Great skin feel in my opinion

[Cafe33]

The amount of liquid products in your formulation is absurd. 

Glycerine is one of the worst things you can add to a Syndet bar in my experience. It will easily absorb moisture from the air and make your bar soggy. 

Cetyl Alcohol at 5% will do wonders for softness. (Better than Cetearyl)

Try to aim for around 70% in Surfactants and Waxes. Dove uses around 25-27% of Stearic Acid in their formulation and around 45-47% SCI with 10-12 % Real Soap. 

I think you should increase your Stearic Acid %. 

CAPB - around 6-8%  would be a more appropriate range. 

You should also consider adding a chelating agent as well as a salt such as Sodium Chloride to also help the bar dry faster after use. 

3.0 % Fragrance sounds very high especially for an intimate product. And from a formulation standpoint it may cause you many headaches. 

[Cafe33]

This will be a fairly thick cream, the amount of water would not concern me. I have made similar conditioner masks with 74.5 % water and they were very thick. Make a test batch, and if you want it thicker, you can replace 1-2% water with Cetyl Alcohol. 

[Cafe33]

Yes, but the density changes from pellets to powder to melted wax. Look at how much space the cooled down melted wax takes vs pellets. TBS are a volumetric measurement, it is not even close to being relevant in formulation. Anyway, only trying to help.  

[Cafe33]

Perry, can you please tell me how some companies in the USA are getting away with illegal claims? I have been studying the marketing material of around 15 different brands, many sold at Sephora and some are definitely making illegal claims. 

Some claims try to circumvent the rules by adding “May” to their wording. “May promote hair growth”. Others do not even seem to bother with that detail. 

[Cafe33]

How do you even measure a TBS of something like Candelila Wax? I cant imagine it can ever be done precisely. You could be altering your formula everytime you make a test batch from the inaccuracy, 

[Cafe33]

Geranium Essential Oil would be my choice.

[Cafe33]

How do you define hair growth for eye lashes exactly? The oil moisturizes the hair and prevents breakage. How does that make the eye lash grow longer?  I might be uneducated on the topic but it seems to be a marketing play perhaps. Interested in opinions. 

[Cafe33]

I think maybe you might be interested in the Handcrafted soap and cosmetic guild. Some of the suppliers you are buying from seem to show up to these conferences https://www.soapguild.org/

[Cafe33]

Not a simple ingredient to use especially if you attempt to dissolve it in water.  

[Cafe33]

So here is my experience, I purchased a 1 kg bag of BTMS-25 around 5 months ago. It smelled like absolutely nothing, completely plain. I also purchased some BTMS-50 (Lotion Crafter) and it had a mild fishy smell. 

After 4 months, the BTMS-25 bag had around half of its material left and it started to smell like fish. It did not have any smell in the beginning. So it may be a sign of some kind of decomposition?  

[Cafe33]

Thank you chemicalmatt. 

Aw (water activity) is a ratio of water vapor pressure of the sample over the vapor pressure of pure water itself.  So it is slightly more complex than what I had previously thought. Can a lab used for challenge testing measure Aw of a sample? I am about to send multiple samples for challenge testing.

So NaCl lowers vapor pressure of water and so do other salts such as Sodium Sulfate, Sodium Lactate and Sodium Citrate.

What about something like a powdered surfactant such as sodium coco sulfate? Would that also lower the vapor pressure of free water and in what way?   

[Cafe33]

Thanks for your response. I am using 30% Active CAPB. I have access to 37% and around 47% if Im not mistaken. I have to buy 200kg and 800kg of each respectively. I also have access through Evoniks to dry CAPB which is around 80-82% Active. 

I am using 8% CAPB which corresponds to 5.60% water. The book I am reading named Soap Manufacturing Technology, water is referred to as a binder. It is in fact a binder. 

My goal is to increase dish stability, I dont want the bar to get runny when exposed to water. The hardness has been good, just looking for the best formulation.