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  • Bottle closure and oxidation…..

    Posted by Graillotion on March 14, 2020 at 1:25 am

    Am I just over thinking this…or would this make a difference…. I am making a reasonably natural Mosquito lotion with Vanillin.  Oxidation is very much a consideration, and am working on the formula to include some anti-oxidants to  address this.  I live in Hawaii…so all my costs are higher than yours.  Therefore I wanted to try and get by with a flip-top lotion dispensing top.  However, it occurred to me that maybe a pump would be more appropriate for minimizing the air exchange.  I realize that even with a pump…a vacuum in not created within the bottle….but I do think that the air exchange would be minimized?

    Love to hear your thoughts.

    OldPerry replied 4 years, 1 month ago 4 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • Cafe33

    March 15, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    “Reasonably Natural” - that should be a new category of products. 

    Have you considered Tinogard TL or TT by BASF for your Vanillin? I was advised that the TL version would work well with Vanillin. 

  • Graillotion

    March 17, 2020 at 7:10 am

    Cafe33, I realize….the word ‘Natural’ … can be fight’n words….hehehe….so I have taken to the term….reasonably natural…hehehe…no one argues with me. :) 

  • Graillotion

    March 17, 2020 at 7:16 am

    Should probably start a new topic….but let me toss this out there… Typically I make ‘reasonably natural’ lotions that are super light…and non-greasy…simply by selecting oils that are….non-greasy.  On my mosquito lotion…not only am I using the typical….EO’s….but also using only carrier oils that are thought to repel…ie: Karanja, Pracaxy, Andiroba, Soy, etc…  I am ending up with a product that has a little greasier feeling than I like… But I want to keep those oils….since the product (personal testing only) is 100% effective for more than 1 hour.  What (if anything) can I add…to make oily oils feel less oily? :)  …..Hehehe….and prefer something reasonably natural…. :) 

  • Graillotion

    March 17, 2020 at 7:23 am

    Cafe33, the last batch I made…I added ROE and dl panth, as that was about the only two antioxi’s I had on the bench…. I think I will get some Vit E, and toss that in there as well.  (The E that I have is too expensive…with CoQ10 and squalene.)
    So far that last batch is look’n good…. I have it in a clear bottle sitting in the window….as I do will all my batches…

  • OldPerry

    March 17, 2020 at 3:06 pm

    If you’re not using DEET, you shouldn’t be calling it a mosquito lotion. It might work for you for an hour, but if you are intent on selling the product you have to test it on all people. 

    Yes, I think using a pump would improve the stability over a flip cap.

    Without knowing all the ingredients in your formula, it is difficult to give useful advice.

  • Graillotion

    March 21, 2020 at 7:03 am

    Perry, I have not called it repelling….I think there is a difference between mosquito lotion, and mosquito repelling lotion.  Am I wrong about this?

    Perry said:

    If you’re not using DEET, you shouldn’t be calling it a mosquito lotion. 

  • Pharma

    March 21, 2020 at 4:11 pm

    …reasonably natural Mosquito lotion with Vanillin…
    …Oxidation is very much a consideration…
    …using only carrier oils that are thought to repel…ie: Karanja, Pracaxy, Andiroba, Soy, etc…
    …I added ROE and dl panth, as that was about the only two antioxi’s I had on the bench…
    …mosquito lotion…

    Reasonably natural… what should I say… you might want to consider adding IR3535 to your lotion. It’s a reasonably natural insect repellent and it’s fairly efficient too, not as efficient as DEET and icaridin but readily biodegradable instead. Officially, it’s synthetic but given the fact that it’s an amino acid derivative with two out of three modifications being ‘natural’ and the third is also found in ‘green’ or ‘clean’ cosmetics ingredients…
    What is it with vanillin? Do you just like it’s scent or do you add it as fixative for repellent EOs? As a more stable and scentless alternative you could try Glucam P-20.

    Why is oxidation a problem and what do you fear is going to oxidise?
    There are certain oils which do repel insects such as ticks but I’ve never heard of those you mentioned containing anything repellent at useful concentrations. Maybe they help insofar as mosquitoes slip on it, fall on their faces, and break their proboscis? And when they go rancid (you really shouldn’t include antioxidants if you’re aiming for that effect) they greatly help keeping larger carnivores at bay though you may be facing vultures instead.
    What is ROE? I know roe as fish ‘eggs’… If you call it caviare, you may sell your product for a lot more $$ ;) . You’re on Hawaii (How nice is that! Here around, weather forecast announces frost for the next few days now that everything starts flowering ;( .) and hence, applying fish eggs might have people fearing they’re going to be pray of branchiura, otherwise known as fish lice, instead of mosquitoes 🙂 .
    Panthenol is not an antioxidant.
    And lastly, a mosquito lotion ain’t that a lotion mosquitoes use to rub on their bellies after feeding to avoid stretch marks?
  • Graillotion

    March 22, 2020 at 4:47 am

    Pharma, hehehe…fun read.
    ROE : Rosemary Oil Extract
    Vanillin, though a white crystal, causes other ingredients to brown….often in as little as two days.  And yes, I am using it as a fixative…. Been shown to reduce volatility much better than P-20.  (And yes, I like the scent it brings… perfect blender with my EO group.)
    The carrier oils I listed…have been used for a thousand years in the Amazon and Africa as natural bug defense.  Many doctoral papers have been written on them…which I have (for better or worse) read.
    I have looked at Picaridin and IR3535, and might as well include Oil of Lemon Eucalyptus (PMD)….and they don’t fit my model.  I would have loved to have added PMD…but it not available at my level/budget.

    I do not plan on making repelling claims…for all the reasons you are aware of… but I have huge demand already, and the product is not finalized…still having emulsion issues.  My vendors are begging for it…hehehe….maybe they have received some preliminary samples….hehehe.  (It smells really good!) … People are always stopping me, asking what my cologne is.

    I live in Hawaii, and have a yard with just under 1000 types of plants, so I spend a lot of time outside.  I am a mosquito magnet, and we have them 365.  So I created this lotion out of personal necessity.  I had tried sooooo many bad ones over the years (non-deet)…. That I came to the conclusion….if you want it done right….do it yourself.  The only (natural) one over the years that actually worked…was heavy on Vanillin….and the research I did…concurred.  I do get a good belly laugh…when I see all these bloggers….tell people the can use Vanilla…in lieu of Vanillin….hehehe… I think Vanilla actually attracts them! :)

    One of the carrier oils listed….directly translates…Bitter oil.  When I wear this lotion….I will sit in the rainforest for an hour…. and watch the mosquitos behavior…. No landings….and they give up their inspection of me…within 3-5 seconds….keeping in mind….without it….I am their favorite.   Without it….they will follow me around for 30 seconds plus, even with swatting.

    So yes….many have failed on this path, but I have made some great steps forward. probably 300-500 hours of reading on the topic…..yup lots of boring thesis reads.  So the finishing touches I need…is a emulsifier I am happy with, and I want to create a synergy of fixatives.  I have Triethyl Citrate arriving Monday, and will toss that into the brew, and I think the finalist for emulifiers will be traditional e-wax and Sepigel 305.  I am having to use 7% ethyl to dissolve the 3% Vanillin.  All my more natural emulsifiers have failed miserably.

  • OldPerry

    March 22, 2020 at 1:25 pm

    While it’s probably not illegal to call your product a “mosquito lotion” in my opinion, it is certainly misleading to do so. A consumer is likely to assume that something called a mosquito lotion is going to be a mosquito repellant. If you do market it as that you should put a disclaimer **Product is not intended for use as a mosquito repellant** or something like that.

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