[Bobzchemist]

One the one hand, most contract manufacturers/fillers will do just about anything - for the right amount of money. The question will be if you can afford the prices they’ll charge.

On the other hand, it occurs to me that you might be better off financially if you broke down the manufacturing/filling/packaging process into discreet steps, done by different companies.

Step 1 - make product, fill into bulk containers.

Step 2 - fill product into undecorated stock packaging

Step 3 - Label, decorate and finish packaging by hand

Steps 1 and 2 could be done by most private label folks.

Step 3 might best be done by one of the handicapped packaging companies that are scattered about the country - I’d guess that you’d get a reasonable cost from them. 

[Bobzchemist]

http://www.chemistrystore.com/Butters_Natural-Lanolin_Anhydrous.html 

[Bobzchemist]

http://dewolfchem.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/lanolin_specs.pdf

[Bobzchemist]

If it were me, I would push for getting as many options as you can afford, primarily because every formula and process environment is different.

I agree with Matt about keeping the stator constant, but you should try as many of the different rotors as you can.

This is specifically why we, as professional chemists, try to have lab equipment that is as close as possible to the available production equipment. If you had a lab mixer with all of the rotor and stator options, it would only take a week or two to make a batch with every possible combination, and then you’d know for sure which was best. 

It is also possible that VMI will have some insight about this, or even be able to run some batch trials for you. Have you contacted them?

[Bobzchemist]

yes

[Bobzchemist]

Sadly, it doesn’t work that way, at least not in the US.

The pigments that are allowed for the eye area are not the same as the pigments allowed for lips, or for face.

And to further complicate matters, there are no legal pigments that could be considered a pure primary color, on top of the fact that the base the pigment is in can change the color, as can the fineness of grind.

Trying to establish a color wheel for cosmetic pigments is an enormous project. It hasn’t been done before because the cost/benefit ratio is really bad - it’s much cheaper and more efficient to hire trained color matchers.

[Bobzchemist]

@Perry,

How do we keep this kind of reference material easily available?

@JD, 

PCPC Buyers Guide is the first place you should look:

http://buyers.personalcarecouncil.org/jsp/BGSearchPage.jsp 

[Bobzchemist]

Rather than a royalty, after a project is complete, I’d rather charge a “retainer” - a monthly or quarterly fee that insures my availability for consulting. Otherwise, Perry’s right - the accounting and trust issues get really complicated.

[Bobzchemist]

http://www.koboproductsinc.com/Downloads/Kobo-Glassflake.pdf

[Bobzchemist]

http://www.emd-performance-materials.com/en/cosmetics/ronastar/ronastar_catching_the_stars/ronastar_catching_the_stars.html

[Bobzchemist]

I think you have solubility issues, not density ones. Density will be totally irrelevant in a formula that is completely soluble and is well-mixed initioally.

[Bobzchemist]

The option two you are describing is referred to as “private label” here in the US. You might try a google search for that. 

Option one is closer to a contract filler. 

The thing that’s causing me concern in your request is the low volume of bulk product that you are talking about buying. 1 gallon or 5 gallon pails? Unless you are considering buying a great many of them, your quantities may very well be below what most companies will consider working with.

How many pieces are you planning on filling/packaging?

[Bobzchemist]

Wow - you are incredibly lucky, @Belaassi.

@JD, the tin oxide is used on the mica to make it more sparkly and mirror-like. It doesn’t actually add anything to the color, per se. It’s on many ingredient lists because it has to be, due to regs, but it serves no purpose if you are trying to re-create someone else’s color cosmetic - it’s just dragged in due to the use of colored pearls.

[Bobzchemist]

Generally speaking, no raw material supplier/distributor will sell to anyone without a corporate affiliation. You will have to go through the DIY places or try the surplus chemical dealers. 

[Bobzchemist]

To the FDA, there is no grey area. One of the reasons that they focus so much on “claims” is so that they don’t have to do any testing themselves.

[Bobzchemist]

Last I heard, the equipment needed to do this cost about 2-3 million dollars - the tin oxide is vapor deposited onto freshly ground mica platelets.

[Bobzchemist]

Kraft?

[Bobzchemist]

I think that what bothers me most is that people have been encouraged to extend their irrational prejudice against pesticides on food to cosmetics/personal care items made from ingredients made or extracted from plant sources - sometimes several times removed.

[Bobzchemist]

You are essentially trying to make a microemulsion with  your EO. If your shampoo is cloudy, then your oil droplets are too large, giving you a macroemulsion instead. You need more powerful surfatants to do this - the quantity of the weak surfactants that you are using will have no effect on this problem at all.

[Bobzchemist]

There is no conversion possible. They are two seperate methods, and the results do not correlate.

[Bobzchemist]

OK, here’s how I try to visualize problems like this - Imagine that you have a beaker full of very light marbles, with fluid covering them and filling in all the gaps. Now, the surface of the marbles is also a bit sticky, so when you try to stir the marble/fluid mixture, there’s some resistance, as the marbles stick to and separate from each other.

Next, reduce the size of the marbles, but imagine that they stay suspended in place. There’s an increased layer of fluid around each marble. The marble/fluid mixture moves much more smoothly as you stir it, because the marbles have more room to move around, and run into each other less frequently.

That’s what you’re doing with your microemulsifier, which is specifically designed to make your inner-phase oil droplets (marbles) smaller, and reduce the “stickiness” of the droplets as well. Every microemulsion I’ve ever encountered was water thin, by the way.

The easiest way to compensate for this is to make your continuous (water) phase more viscous. This will have the added side benefit of making your emulsion more stable.

[Bobzchemist]

I remember being asked on one of my first, if not my very first interview, how I would try to manufacture M&M’s. Being the son of a chemical engineer (who liked to talk about his job whenever he could), I think I went into way too much detail. I don’t think the interviewer was all that impressed, and I didn’t get the job. 

Funny thing, though - several years later, I looked up how M&M’s were actually made, and I came remarkably close to the actual manufacturing process - although going on for five minutes about the differences between fluid-bed dryers, spray dryers, and rotating-pan dryers probably wasn’t the best move to make in that interview… 

[Bobzchemist]

Much better, @Perry

[Bobzchemist]

But… this leaves the situation wide open for the approach suggested by @MarkBroussard.

If you use just enough Willow Extract to give you an effective level of 1.8% - 1.9% BHA, you are clear in every direction - as long as you don’t make any drug claims.

[Bobzchemist]

The FDA also has a regulation that says, essentially, if you use an ingredient that’s recognized by consumers as a drug ingredient, then your product falls under the drug regulations anyway, even if you are not making any claims at all, and the only place that ingredient is mentioned is on the LOI.

As an example, I couldn’t make a cosmetic product and put penicillin in it, even if it was only listed on the ingredient label and nowhere else.