Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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This is a scale-up issue. The best thing to do is to find out what is different between plant production and lab production, then change how the product is made in the plant.
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Denatured alcohol is just another term for “ethanol + poison”. To get non-denatured ethanol, you will likely need to buy ethanol that is safe to drink. There is nearly zero difference chemically between most (not all) denatured alcohols and drinkable ethanol.
Most people do not understand that there are about 100 different formulas for the ingredient called “denatured alcohol”. Some of the poisons added can be really bad for you, so make sure that you use a safe grade. List of denaturants authorized for denatured spirits and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol#Formulations
IPA, on the other hand, is a different chemical from Ethanol. It will NOT behave the same way, the solubilities are different, etc. This may or may not be significant in your formula - the only way to know for sure is to try it.
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Pemulen.
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It’s called “syneresis”, and there are several solutions. Google “syneresis in lipstick” for possibilities.
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It’s a simple electric motor, shaft and paddles. Check the motor specs, then you can get one custom fabbed for you at a bunch of places.
Or you can modify an in-stock mixer like this one from Indco:
https://www.indco.com/one-HP-electric-direct-drive-IBC-tote-mixer-deluxe-adjustable-mixerYou’ll need a shaft and props, too.
https://www.indco.com/three-fourths-by-thirtytwo-inch-stainless-steel-shaft
https://www.indco.com/ten-by-one-inch-stainless-steel-folding-impeller
https://www.indco.com/ten-inch-four-blade-radial-flow-turbine-mill-finish
Please note that I’m just showing you examples of what you could buy. You will need specs and dimensions, etc. to match what you’re trying to replace exactly. If you can’t figure that out yourself, it would probably be easier and cheaper in the long run to consult a chemical engineer to determine a specific match.
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Just as a point of interest to those attempting to apply for jobs: (and I see this all the time, not just here)
If a posting says send a resume, just send the resume. Posting and asking the recruiter to contact you is a strong indication that you either do not understand English well, or that you do not follow instructions well, or both.
Ask yourself - would you want someone working for you who could not follow instructions?
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It looks like you are asking if your filled finished products can be re-emulsified (“saved”) after phase separation in the tube. The answer to that is a definite “No”.
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Define “labs”, please.
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If you add the fragrance at a temperature over 50C, you won’t completely destroy it, you’ll just evaporate more of it than you would if you added it at a lower temperature. This will raise the cost a bit, which is something that most of us try hard to avoid.
But…if you have a formula that is working in all other aspects, it might make sense to add some additional fragrance at a higher temperature (to compensate for the increased evaporation) rather than start changing the functional ingredients.
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Heat with activated carbon, then filter out the carbon.
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If you’re not grinding the lakes fine enough, that could be your problem. Also, most pigment grinds are made with castor oil, or something with equivalent viscosity/yield value, so that the pigment doesn’t settle out or re-agglomerate.
Are you using a 3-roll mill, a high-shear disperser, or a pigment muller to disperse your lakes?
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1)How are you dispersing your color, or is it pre-dispersed? It takes a great deal of shear/energy to disperse dry color finely enough to keep it from being felt on the lips.
2) Make 2 sticks, one with just your colors and one with just your micas. Which one is more “scratchy”? Mica isn’t usually, but it could be. -
Depending on what you want to formulate, you might be able to get help from Stephenson.
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I’d suggest that the safest method is to soak the petals in 190 proof ethanol first.
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For your purposes, you should look into a trial of the Admix Rotostat. It has a stronger pumping action than the Silverson, and won’t heat up batches as much.
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I’m using the term neutralizing agent here as a synonym for saponifying agent - in other words, a base that will react with the fatty acids/oils in your formula to form soap.
To get really technical, as I understand it, saponifying is the term used when describing what happens when a base is mixed with a triglyceride, since there are two separate reactions taking place. Neutralizing, on the other hand, is used to describe what happens when an already existing fatty acid reacts with a base. Since you have a mixture of fatty acids and triglycerides, I think either term would be correct.
Metal Hydroxides and Amines have both long been used for this purpose. Each chemical will have a somewhat different effect on your formula. If Triethanolamine helps your formula, then it’s not much of a stretch to think that one of the Angus amines would also help.
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The Beeswax/Calcium Hydroxide reaction will probably take either a high temperature or a long time to proceed to completion. You might need to try running that reaction before you make your batch, although I still think you’d find out valuable information if you tested a range of neutralizing agents.
If you’re already using the Silverson with the smallest possible screen, sometimes extra mixing time can make up for the use of a lower shear mixer.
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You might also want to look at AMP and/or AMPD as neutralizing agents:
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Saponifying beeswax with calcium hydroxide is very likely your problem. As Belassi pointed out, it doesn’t produce an emulsifier. Try sodium or potassium hydroxide instead.
Alternatively, add the stearic acid that Brylcreem uses.
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TEA soaps do not behave precisely the same as sodium soaps, or potassium soaps, for that matter. Whenever you change the base, you will change the product characteristics.
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Try type 3 or 4
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Budget?
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Have you ever smelled burning soap? I have. From personal experience, this is a very, very bad idea.
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Why are you using Zinc Oxide?
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Is this a continually open container? If so, you will most likely not be able to preserve it naturally, unless you can really minimize the amount of water you need to use.
You might want to look into Laurest 1220