Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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What @Perry said. But, it’s actually worse than that - because hair care is a sub-specialty of cosmetic chemistry that not all that many cosmetic chemists get involved in. I feel your frustration, but you have to consider something - of the 8,000 or so cosmetic chemists working in the US, only about 30 or 40 of them are involved in any type of online forum. The odds of one of them having been involved in ethnic hair care are really small.
I really do have experience working on products for Africans and other ethnicities - but not in hair care. I’m primarily focused on products for the skin, and a lot of my experience is specialized in color cosmetics.These online blogs and forums are a relatively new idea, also. 5 or 10 years ago, you’d have no choice other than paying a consultants fee if you wanted to talk to a professional cosmetic chemist at all. So the fact that you can get any sort of advice for free about cosmetics from a working professional is really a radical concept - and a number of us have already gotten flack from consultants about it.I don’t want to sound like I’m angry about this, but really, it’s like we’re standing here giving away free ice cream, and you’re complaining because we only have vanilla. There are plenty of resources available to you - but you’re going to have to pay for them. -
Some people are allergic to many different things, but 2 allergic reactions should be a red flag. In general, a 1-5% allergic reaction rate would very quickly see you sued out of existence.
Since you tested this on your sister, you may be able to take advantage of your relationship and get her to test each ingredient individually. The lavender and/or rosemary are the most likely culprits, but the pumpkin seed oil and the pomegranate oil are so uncommon that there might easily be issues with those as well - but test everything. -
The IKA Turrax and Lab Depot Scilogex homogenizers are much, much closer to Silversons than they are to Arde-Barincos.
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OK, a little basic chemical engineering.
(By the way, the machines the dairy industry calls homogenizers? Nothing to do with what we use for cosmetics)The high-shear mixer/homogenizers we use in the cosmetic industry come in two basic types. The first, and older technology is the Arde-Barinco/Gifford-Wood style. This uses a high-speed, sharp-edged rotor that pumps material through a fixed gap between it and a sharp-edged stator. This type of system sacrifices a certain amount of shear for pumping action, and adjustability for robustness.The second type is the Silverson/Ross mixers and their chinese imitators. This type of system gets more shear from pumping through a smaller gap and many smaller holes. It’s much more adjustable, has higher shear available, but doesn’t pump as well/efficiently, and is a little easier to break. (Don’t ask me how I know that, please)There’s a third type, the admix rotosolver, but it’s fairly uncommon in cosmetics.All three types are more or less interchangeable, and only require adjustments in speed/time to produce very similar results. Models within each type are easily interchangeable, and should produce identical results when identical parameters are used.It’s not difficult to tell what type you’re buying - just examine the mixing head closely. -
This used Silverson is about $3,000
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And if they did work, they’d be a drug, and not a cosmetic. So it’s probably a good thing that they don’t
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We use a 50% lye solution here. You do need to be very careful with it.
There are high-oleic versions of sunflower, safflower, and soybean oil that might also be worth looking into. -
Just got an email about something called Sophogreen, from Induchem/Soliance:
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Yeah, but 99% of the “how this special formula is amazing” stuff is pure nonsense. You can just sprinkle some fairy dust in a standard formula, and write pages and pages of advertising silliness.
Unfortunately, a lot of beginning entrepeneurs fall for the hype. -
Ultrasonic homogenizers have run into a couple of problems. One, there are very few production-sized ones installed anywhere, so if you’re trying to scale-up properly from lab batches, you have to spend a huge amount of money to buy a new production emulsifier. Two is that there are some doubts as to how well/predictably the batches scale-up from lab size, so there’s going to need to be time and effort invested in learning the quirks of the process. Not a good combination.
As for prices of emulsifiers - the same type of machine configuration/geometry/speed will produce the same type of emulsion. So, if you are just starting out on a limited budget and need a proof-of concept, or a machine to make prototypes with, $450 seems like a better choice, even if the machine breaks after a year or two.The $6 - $8k you spend on a Silverson will buy you a machine that’s pretty well guaranteed to last you 20 - 30 years. If you’re certain you will use one throughout those 20 years, it’s a good investment. If there’s some doubt about the longevity of your project, it probably makes more sense to buy the cheap one first, then keep it for a backup after you buy a Silverson in a year or two.I haven’t personally worked with any of those models, but I’ve bought chinese-made lab stirrers, and they were ok. -
The ethanol is there to kill microbes. Chlorophyllin can become extremely contaminated just by breathing on it, it’s that good of a growth medium. Making a 1% anhydrous solution in Zemea would probably eliminate microbial growth also, but it might not kill the microbes/spores if the powder is already contaminated. If I was doing it for me, I’d use the ethanol. Since this is just for your personal use, it’s your call.
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Define “best”.
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Do patent searches.
Then, contact companies that make resin solutions and companies that sell lipstick pigments, to see if someone has a starting formula.But…if the company you are working for thinks that they can get a production-ready line of liquid matte lipsticks from an inexperienced cosmetic chemist in less than 6 months, you need to start looking for a new job. Today. Because they are expecting a real life miracle, and even if you somehow manage to pull this off quickly by working days, nights, and weekends, they are going to keep expecting similar things for your next projects. You need to leave as quickly as you possibly can, and don’t look back. -
The first thing that most people starting out have a great deal of trouble comprehending is that there’s no such thing as a “secret” formula. None. Any, and I do mean any formula can be reverse engineered in at most a week, for about $5k.
The second thing that most people starting out have a great deal of trouble comprehending is that good, even great, ideas for cosmetic products aren’t even a dime a dozen - it’s more like a dime a hundred or two. Nobody is going to steal your idea, no matter how good you think it is, because a good idea by itself is essentially worthless. A good idea with a custom formula attached isn’t worth more than $100 or so.Almost all of the value in your idea (~98%) will come from sales and marketing. The other two percent is having a decent formulation - but those are really, really easy to come by.Be really careful about staying on the right side of the “structure and function line”, do all the safety testing, document your claims, and you’ll be fine. -
Especially when dealing with something as potentially dangerous as acid peels, your question displays a very, very scary lack of knowledge. Please, please leave this kind of product to professionals - if you do something wrong with acid peels, it is possible that you could wind up with permanent scars all over your face.
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Thanks. The trick is that they’re not listed under “homogenizers”.
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The Silverson does not do well when you want a low speed, low shear mixer, as you might need for a lotion cool down phase. You can substitute the overhead mixer for manual stirring instead, but it’s not a fun job.There are Chinese versions of Silverson/Ross mixers available on Ebay for remarkably low prices. You might want to look into them before committing to a $5,000 or more purchase:.
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In the past, I have made a composite formula, using the maximum amount of every pigment in a group of shades, and used it for RIPT testing. This was for the US - I don’t know if it would be OK in the EU.
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By its effect, this would be a drug product, requiring a NDA. I have to strongly recomend against using it at all.
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I’d suggest an in-use study, then. Have someone, or several people, use a sample of the product each in the shower until it’s halfway used up - then run a PET on the remaining material. It’s the only way to tell for sure.
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0.03% of powdered Chlorophyllin will make a very dark green. The sample you point to probably has a tenth of that. Chlorophyllin is also good bug food, and easy to contaminate. Make a 1% solution in 50% aq. ethanol, and it will keep more or less forever. Add it dropwise to your shampoo until you get the right color - no need to weigh it.
As for the HEC? Try it and see. Experimenting is fun. -
In the past, I’ve used a version of the Japanese kanban system effectively. No spreadsheet needed. The point about halfway or 2/3 of the way through the stock of every component gets marked with a red card. Ideally, the card has all the ordering info needed. When you hit the red card, you re-order, then replace it when the new stock comes in.
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I agree with the flammability problem. If silicone sealant won’t do, get some fiberglass cloth from the local auto repair store instead.
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Where have you looked so far to try to find this information out by yourself?
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It’s just nomenclature. There’s a fair amount of cross-over, but most fragrance ingredients taste nasty, so they aren’t used in flavors.