Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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You get to work with some of my favorite emulsifiers - I’m almost jealous. Almost.
My suggestion is to use the Pemulens, specifically TR-1.Some good information here: -
Tani,
When I did this several years ago, I found taking Perry’s course very helpful, not only for the content, but also as a way to guide my additional searches for information. Each month, I started with his material, then worked to find as much more information on that topic as I could. As I did that, more and more of the information I’d originally learned as a cosmetic chemist came back to me.I also found interacting with people here on the forum to be helpful.Bob -
Polymeric film formers are ideal for this.
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What are you trying to make? From the ingredients listed, you will have, at best, a paste.
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Have you tried Laponite?
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We use a semi-automatic process, and shrink-wrap labels.
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This is a pet peeve of mine. Use rinse-off surfactant products to cleanse. Period. Trying to get them to moisturize only makes for frustration and bad products.
If you need a moisturizer, make a leave-on moisturizer - it’s not hard to make a good one. -
What I find funny is that the elimination of animal products from cosmetics and most soaps has resulted in a massive increase in the amount of waste going into landfills and down the sewers. Not one animal has been spared - all the PETA and associated fanatics did is create much more environmental waste.
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Needs at least 20% alcohol. Can only be a one-time use product. More than one use will be a disaster.
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Rich Konick is quite good. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-konik-0a893136
Yolanda Laboy https://www.linkedin.com/in/yolanda-laboy-9a994412
Nick Morante used to have a consulting business, but he shut it down. He might be able to recomend someone https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickmorante Dan Bosmann https://www.linkedin.com/in/danbosmannD -
You don’t “have to” do any sort of stability or packaging test if you don’t want to. That testing is done so that you can figure out whether or not your product will be stable in the long term. If you don’t care that your product might fall apart, degrade, or grow mold after a period of time sitting on the shelf, by all means, don’t test.
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That sounds like overcharging to me, at first glance. And I do create foundations.
But…I don’t know what they’re providing for that amount of money. Shade matching can be very easy, or it can be a major, time-consuming project, depending on how flexible your client is. I’ve matched a shade in an hour, with a client who was in the lab with me, knew what she wanted, and could see color well. I’ve also had a shade match take 2 weeks of nearly full-time work, with a client who was very, very picky and wanted a color match to her prototype that was so precise that she needed not to be able to tell the difference when it was applied blind. I lost money with that client, and she’s one of the reasons I don’t really consult anymore.Technically, each shade should at least be stability tested, so there’s some cost involved with that also.If I was in your position, this is what I’d do.1) 10K is reasonable for a formulation if they’re doing all the testing - PET, stability, etc., and they’re disclosing the formula to you fully - specific ingredients, percentages, and suppliers. Let them make one shade for that amount.2) Have them make you 1 liter batches of 5 monochromatic adjusting bases - red iron oxide, yellow iron oxide, black iron oxide, titanium dioxide, and colorless.3) Use the bases to either color match yourself, or hire a color chemist to do it for you.A note on liquid foundation color lineups - it’s tempting (and a bit quicker) to use more titanium dioxide to make a lighter shade. I think that you should resist the temptation - more TiO2 increases opacity too much - use less pigment instead. Having a consistent TiO2 level gives your color lineup the same coverage/opacity level across all the shades, which makes it easier for a consumer to find the right shade, and also to switch shades for summer and winter uses. -
Why would you consider sodium hydroxide unatural?
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I can’t understand your question
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The answer to that question is…maybe.
Pigment particles, no matter how small you grind them, need to be suspended properly, or over time, they settle out. Suspending ability is more a function of yield value than of viscosity, so even your more viscous face creams may not have enough suspending strength to produce a stable product.Unfortunately, short of spending 30K or so on an advanced viscometer, there’s no way to tell how much suspending ability a cream will have beforehand - you’ll just have to test the stability in an oven to find out. -
Just in case you’re confused.
Castor Oil is an emollient liquid. Hydrogenate it and you get Hydrogenated Castor Oil, a hard, high melt point wax. Further modify the HCO, and you get PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, which is an emulsifier and solubilizer.3 different molecules. 3 different functions and physical characteristics. Not the slightest bit interchangeable. -
I agree with @Magreat, HCO is a wax, why would you add it on cool-down?
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Adding an actual “penetration enhancer” to any cosmetic automatically turns it into an unapproved new drug, and makes it illegal to sell. It is then incredibly, almost insanely, risky to use it on your own skin, regardless of what is in that cosmetic. You could die, or cause severe harm to yourself.
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Potassium Hydroxide might be a better choice, come to think of it.
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I’m wondering if that formula skipped the part about neutralizing the Lauric Acid with Sodium Hydroxide? That’s the only way I can think of that makes sense.
Otherwise, you will never get a clear aqueous solution with Lauric Acid at 3%, even if you bump the surfactant level way up. -
Even if you make a sterile product, and pack it into sterile packaging in a clean room, you’d still have the problem of contamination after your customer used the product the first time.
The only way to make this work would be to use single-use/single-dose containers - and even then you’d have to deal with “frugal” consumers wanting to use 1/2 a container and save the rest for later.Generally speaking, it’s much safer, much less liability, and much less expensive to use the appropriate preservatives than it is to pander to consumers unjustified chemophobia about preservatives. -
At least in the US, there is a fundamental conflict in selling skincare. According to the FDA, cosmetics are not allowed to affect the structure or function of the human body, or to treat any disease. What this means in the real world is that any cosmetic product stronger than a simple moisturizer is technically an unapproved new drug, and is illegal to sell unless a NDA is filed and approved.
Cosmetic companies know this, and must walk a fine line between selling products that might work and products that are illegal. In practice, what we as chemists know is that there’s really very little difference in how any similar product performs. This leads to a lot of cynicism, especially when marketing people want to claim that the addition of minuscule amounts of “active” ingredients and/or botanicals make a formula new/different/more effective.But…what @Perry said is also very true. If you want to sell a product, you absolutely MUST believe that your product is great. So, listening to cosmetic chemists can be really counter-productive.Please don’t think that we believe that you are trying to “shill customers into buying your product” But, if your product really does treat/improve a skin condition, you’re selling a drug, not a cosmetic. If you try to sell it as a cosmetic, you are taking a huge risk that you will be able to avoid FDA scrutiny. -
I’ve go to ask - if you didn’t want our advice, why did you waste our time asking questions?
You really need to talk to/hire a consulting chemist if you don’t believe us. Oxidative stability/rancidity is not something that can possibly be detected in your pre-production testing, since the reaction is clearly hapening during several months post-production.
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I agree with the @Belassi on rancidity being the cause. The easiest way to fix it is to use BHT, either mixed into your oils as soon as you get them, or mixed into your soap, or both.