Help! being over charged. - Chemists Corner

Starting a cosmetic line

Help! being over charged.

Posted by Sheldon_16 on March 21, 2016 at 4:31 pm

Hi, like many people to this forum I’m new to the world of color cosmetics. Ive done lots of research but still a newbie to pricing and formulation. Ive found a chemist in my home town that is willing to revers engineer a liquid foundation from a name brand company and tweak it to my specifications and needs. Based on much research I understand its typical to pay half up front and other half upon release of formulation. In my case they are charging $5k up front and $5k when done, totaling $10k plus 3 revisions. Since it is a liquid foundation for the skin I will naturally need to have it in at least 8 shades for different skin tones. This is the KICKER FOR ME… they want $6,500.00 FOR EACH additional shade. This is the part that has my business sensors tingling. At this point its no more revers engineering they are just changing the coloration a bit to get the shades. Is this normal to charge so much just to change shade, or should I run for the hills? Should I have them reverse engineer the liquid foundation and have some one else create the different shades I need with the formula I would get from them? All thoughts outburst and Help greatly appreciated.

Sheldon_16 replied 8 years, 1 month ago 4 Members · 8 Replies
8 Replies

OldPerry

Member
March 21, 2016 at 4:48 pm

It sounds like over charging to me but I don’t create foundations so I’ll let others weigh in.
Sheldon_16

Member
March 21, 2016 at 4:55 pm

Awesome, thank you for the input. Thats my thoughts as well
MarkBroussard

Member
March 21, 2016 at 5:15 pm

Yes, you are being overcharged a ridiculous amount. The color work should be significantly less than the formulation work.
Bobzchemist

Member
March 21, 2016 at 5:35 pm

That sounds like overcharging to me, at first glance. And I do create foundations.

But…I don’t know what they’re providing for that amount of money. Shade matching can be very easy, or it can be a major, time-consuming project, depending on how flexible your client is. I’ve matched a shade in an hour, with a client who was in the lab with me, knew what she wanted, and could see color well. I’ve also had a shade match take 2 weeks of nearly full-time work, with a client who was very, very picky and wanted a color match to her prototype that was so precise that she needed not to be able to tell the difference when it was applied blind. I lost money with that client, and she’s one of the reasons I don’t really consult anymore.

Technically, each shade should at least be stability tested, so there’s some cost involved with that also.

If I was in your position, this is what I’d do.

1) 10K is reasonable for a formulation if they’re doing all the testing - PET, stability, etc., and they’re disclosing the formula to you fully - specific ingredients, percentages, and suppliers. Let them make one shade for that amount.

2) Have them make you 1 liter batches of 5 monochromatic adjusting bases - red iron oxide, yellow iron oxide, black iron oxide, titanium dioxide, and colorless.

3) Use the bases to either color match yourself, or hire a color chemist to do it for you.

A note on liquid foundation color lineups - it’s tempting (and a bit quicker) to use more titanium dioxide to make a lighter shade. I think that you should resist the temptation - more TiO2 increases opacity too much - use less pigment instead. Having a consistent TiO2 level gives your color lineup the same coverage/opacity level across all the shades, which makes it easier for a consumer to find the right shade, and also to switch shades for summer and winter uses.
Sheldon_16

Member
March 22, 2016 at 4:44 pm

thanks @Bobzchmist for the information will keep this in thought. will also look around for other color chemist. too see about a better pricing. especially if I’m looking to get more work done in the future.
Sheldon_16

Member
March 22, 2016 at 4:49 pm

@MarkBroussard I agree, glad my business intuition kicked and and I asked you guys. If you or Bobzchmist do or can refer me to a color cosmetic chemist that would be great full. not having much luck finding reputable chemist or companies here in florida. so expanding my search area throughout.
Bobzchemist

Member
March 22, 2016 at 6:34 pm

Rich Konick is quite good. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-konik-0a893136

Yolanda Laboy https://www.linkedin.com/in/yolanda-laboy-9a994412 

Nick Morante used to have a consulting business, but he shut it down. He might be able to recomend someone https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickmorante 

Dan Bosmann https://www.linkedin.com/in/danbosmann

D
Sheldon_16

Member
March 23, 2016 at 4:25 pm

Thank you, @Bobzchemist will reach out to them.