[belassi]

You’re welcome. I’ll post more later, today I had to spend all my lab time on the sulphate-free.

[belassi]

1. Where is the neutraliser for the carbomer? I don’t see it in your list.

2. Stirring has to be done slowly or you will get bubbles. I usually neutralise as the last step and get all the air out before that.

[belassi]

@Lizzynk: start your own thread for that. This one is about lipstick.

[belassi]

Not to worry. I seem to have solved the problem by adding MEA. I’ll discontinue the PEG-150 investigation.

[belassi]

Been working with this today with excellent results so far.

I discovered that MEA doesn’t neutralise the laureth-6 carboxylic acid. I guess it is too weak a base. So I still had to use NaOH to neutralise, just a little less was all.

However, I discovered that adding 1% MEA to the formula and at the same time reducing the VLT thickener from 3.8 to 2% was overkill! I actually exceeded my target, the test shampoo when it was at room temp, was so thick it would hardly come out of the bottle.

The foam profile is definitely improved!

This is super important to me because our sulphate-free shampoo is becoming more and more popular, and my materials costs are going through the roof. The thickener went from $25/Kg to $40/Kg. This reformulation should allow me to control my costs and maintain my selling price. 

[belassi]

Exactly. As a simple shampoo it works just fine. No citric acid - the pH as it came was 6.0, and you don’t want it any higher when using ammonium radicals. I added 0.2% EDTA and 0.5% potassium sorbate. It emulsified fragrances easily, just with hand stirring. So far I am really pleased with this blend, it’s way superior to the SLeS/CAPB formulations I have been experimenting with. (I could get a similar foam profile to this blend when I added SLS (thus SLS/SLeS/CAPB) but that was quite nasty for scalp itch.)

[belassi]

I tested this on myself this morning and it was pretty good. Since it uses such a small amount of salt to thicken, I think I’ll use CAPB as the thickener, because it contains salt and it’s cheap enough; should improve the foam and hand feel even further.

[belassi]

I can only speak as I find. For me, SLES provides a poorer foam quality and is irritating. The ammonium salts are much superior to the sodium salts. However you must maintain pH below 7 using ammonium salts or they begin to decompose.

[belassi]

Yet another type of thing I can’t source unfortunately but I do appreciate the suggestions.

[belassi]

Did the re-test. Using 0.75% of PEG-150 I added the target amount of 2% VLT. The result was a little too thin. Either I use 1% of PEG-150 or 2.5% of VLT. The latter costs $40/Kg.

[belassi]

http://www.inolex.com/sites/default/files/Inolex_PCEuro_AltPres_Nov11.pdf

I use their Spectrastat product at 0.7% in gels and have had zero problems with it.

[belassi]

Good question and interesting info. I wish I had the brains to answer it.

[belassi]

Thanks Bill. I think I will just have to throw it away, otherwise be unsure.

[belassi]

Mark, thank you. I have about 5Kg of what is labelled “Glycol Distearate” that I bought for pearlising, but I quickly discovered it didn’t pearlise, just made the shampoo gooey. Looks like it must have been a supplier error and it’s really glycol stearate.

[belassi]

Today I got the chance to do a bit of work with the PEG-150.

First I set my target, which is to reduce the Glucamate VLT content from around 3.8% (currently) to 2% but not less than 1.75% (VLT has great sensorials and also enhances preservative action)

Today, test #1, I prepared 1L, adding 0.5% PEG-150 and subtracting 0.5% water.

It was necessary to modify the procedure by heating two of the three surfactants to 65C to incorporate the PEG-150. Then I added sufficient VLT to increase the thickness to the desired level. (I don’t have expensive viscometer equipment, so I measure the time it takes a bubble to rise to the top of a graduated cylinder)

VLT added: 2.8% - an improvement of 1%

Notes: a) taking forever to de-bubble b) seems to be slightly less than clear, a little translucent.

Next: increase PEG-150 to 0.75% and re-test.

[belassi]

Correct. If it doesn’t disperse properly and fish-eyes are left, those will be pure (acidic) carbomer and can irritate.

[belassi]

D-Limonene is the industry standard for this kind of product. Just be careful to source fresh (unoxidised) supplies, keep it in glass (not plastic) with minimum exposure to air.

[belassi]

It should be added all at once 20 minutes or more prior to the rest of the ingredients, allowed to completely wet, then dispersed with gentle agitation (typically 200 rpm). It may be helpful to partially neutralise it prior to adding the other ingredients. I recommend sifting it into the water to avoid lumps that can result in “fish eyes”.

[belassi]

@Perry, it’s for mechanics, I suspect they will be trying to remove the petrolatum and mineral oil from their hands, actually (laughing). This could be a simple formulation with a friendly surfactant such as ALS and the degreaser will of course be D-Limonene, suspended in a carbomer gel.

[belassi]

Those are two heavy oils you have there. Not that easy to emulsify. In general, surfactants can emulsify oils, but those two surfactants are outside my experience so I’ll leave it to others to comment further. You realise, that adding oil to shampoo kills the foam?

[belassi]

Papaya dissolves the dead skin cells - it is used as an enzymatic exfoliant, typically at 0.5% concentration. Eating it and applying it topically will have different effects.

[belassi]

I always appreciate recommends for ingredients. Unfortunately those two companies aren’t represented here.

[belassi]

Glycerine will work OK. And add some aloe vera extract.

[belassi]

So it won’t be any use at pH = 5.5?

Edit: Just found this: https://www.lubrizol.com/Personal-Care/Documents/Technical-Papers-and-Presentations/Novethix%E2%84%A2-L-10-Polymer-Technical-Paper.pdf

- So yes, it looks like it’s useless for me (unless I want to make a sulphate free pet shampoo!)

[belassi]

“What are the difference between Ionic, Non ionic and Cationic waxes/bases. Fatty alcohols and fatty acids difference.”

It seems to me that the original question is a bit off the mark. It’s not fatty alcohols and fatty acids that have these properties (they are nonpolar substances and so they won’t have an electrical charge). It is surfactants that usually are specified in such a way. 

Try this: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.mx/search?q=ionic