abierose
Forum Replies Created
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“Hypoallergenic”
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There are way too many websites proclaiming that essential oils are natural and therefore harmless and that fragrance oils are synthetic and therefore harmful. ????
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@AVisotsky Access is a database software made by Microsoft.
I also use spreadsheets to store my inventory and also my formulas. I have my inventory list set up to allow me to link my formulas to individual ingredients that are accessible via a drop down list so I don’t have to type in each ingredient every time I use it in a formula. So far this has worked pretty well for me. I use Google Sheets but I’m sure the same can be accomplished using Microsoft Excel or Open Office equivalent.
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Perry said:Since literally anyone can write anything about anything on the Internet, there has been a proliferation of dubious formulation experts giving dubious advice.
What are some examples of the worst formulating advice you’ve seen online?
I’ll start…
Using natural oils as SPF ingredients - This is downright dangerous as people may go out thinking their skin is protected while it actually isn’t. No, Carrot oil will not help you achieve an SPF 38 to 40!
I visibly cringe every time I see “to use coconut oil as an spf and sun block” ????…I’ve also read you can use coconut oil to whiten your teeth! ???? There was definitely a minute where people were touting coconut oil as a cure-all…
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PhilGeis said:abierose said:It’s pretty crazy that so many people were involved in this scheme over DECADES and no one ever blew the whistle! Even crazier is the fact that the companies paying this entity, none of them ever had another independent lab test their product(s)…?
True - suppose they were exploiting small to medium sized companies and those without their own auditing systems that likely couldn’t afford multiple clinicals and i bet AMA was a low cost supplier.
Major company clinical research study monitors would have caught the fraud.Ahh, yeah, that makes sense.
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It’s pretty crazy that so many people were involved in this scheme over DECADES and no one ever blew the whistle! Even crazier is the fact that the companies paying this entity, none of them ever had another independent lab test their product(s)…?
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Sincityfire said:I suspect the impact of their fraud is going to be quite substantial, and it seems they were doing this for quite a while.
For example, one of the largest Australian sunscreen brands primarily used AMA Labs for their SPF testing and it was found that many of those sunscreens are not performing to standard. Concerning since Australia and New Zealand and #1 & 2 for skin cancer rates.
That is just terrible! I sense some class action lawsuits coming…
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Yes, this is generally true. But do they have any idea how many consumers were potentially put at risk from these adulterated and/or fraudulent test results??
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Perry said:Just updating a story that was posted a couple years ago.
This was a testing laboratory that the company I worked for used on occasion. I wonder how many science papers, claims, and patents are suspect due to using data generated by this lab.
What’s crazy is that those crimes together total a maximum of 7 years in prison! I would think causing a misbranded drug to be introduced to interstate commerce and that type of egregious behavior would carry a much heavier sentence than 7 years…
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Perry said:I haven’t used hyaluronidases so can’t offer formulating advice. But I am curious.
If this product (which would be an illegal drug in the US) works as well as suggested, why hasn’t a big pharmaceutical corporation already developed it? Why isn’t something with this technology already out on the market? How will you protect the IP?
Also, how is this formula different than the other revolutionary skin product you previously talked about?
Yes, I was actually wondering the same thing as @Perry…I realized after reading your posts on this current discussion that they sounded very familiar and remembered a previous discussion where you talked about a product claiming it will be the best product ever made, in so many words…I guess I’m a little concerned about credibility, particularly when taking your advice and trusting that the information you give is accurate…I am in no way trying to be rude or snarky or anything like that…I just want to make sure I can trust your feedback when some of the claims you have made seem a bit far fetched…????♀️
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Pharma said:- Pharmacist is a liberal profession = laws and regulations are for pussies
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@Dreamer77 thank you for all of that information! I really appreciate it
so, I can use a non ionic OR a cationic cellulose or gum..? Just out of curiosity, do you have any suggestions or do you prefer a certain non ionic emulsifier that is similar to the one Gattefosse produces..? Do you make/sell skincare products? What are some of your preferred emulsifiers and emolients..? Thanks!!! -
jemolian said:@abierose
if you can’t find Emulium Delta, perhaps you can try Lipomulse Luxe. You can compared the sensory profile, which they have done so on the product brochure with Emulium Delta. It’s available on Trulux.https://azeliscanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Lipomulse-Luxe-Brochure-1.pdf
Thank you so much @jemolian!
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@Microformulation and @MarkBroussard thank you! I appreciate your feedback immensely!
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Microformulation said:We maintain very few samples in inventory. We are able to get samples of just about anything via UPS in 5 days or so. Also, our goal is to do R&D, not store keeping. Except for the most common staples, we maintain little inventory and it has never slowed down a project. The project samples are maintained in a climate and humidity controlled space.
And when you say “climate and humidity controlled space” are you talking about a small room, locker, cabinet, large humidor….? ???? sorry if this is a silly question..it’s just I’m in such early stages of all this and I have quite a large number of samples and ingredients that I would like to store in the best way possible to avoid spoilage as well as to be more organized…
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PhilGeis said:Check with specific suppliers - be aware, some raw materials are not physically stable at low temperature.
Ah yes, this is true. So say you have 30 ingredients, all with the same storage temperature requirements, do you keep those ingredients stored in a lockable cabinet or deep drawers with adjustable compartments for each individual bottle/bag…? I’m just curious to see how most people keep their ingredients and inventory organized for safety, ease of access/use, space saving, etc….
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@Dreamer77 I’ve been looking at the emulsifier you mentioned (Emuliam Delta) and am definitely intrigued…do you purchase yours directly from the company who makes it (https://www.gattefosse.com/) or is there another repacker or reseller that you get yours through? I’m looking at some of their other products…they have some pretty cool stuff!
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Thanks @Dreamer77! I did not know that about the N350 or the Polyquaternium, so, thank you for that info!
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Wow, what a great document on Allantoin @RedCoast! Very informative and useful! Thanks again ????
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RedCoast said:
Allantoin at less than 0.5% concentrations typically doesn’t recrystallize if you dissolved it at 50 C/122 F (or above)
Oops… I forgot to put an asterisk there… and I forgot to upload a specific document to give you a better context. *facepalm* I was in a hurry, so silly me.
@abierose you should find this document I attached on allantoin’s solubility and chemical stability useful.Apologies for any confusion!But basically, the hotter the water (or another solvent), the better it will dissolve…but recrystallization will be an issue if you have 1) higher concentrations of allantoin, 2) don’t have the proper rheology modifiers and emulsifiers and 3) you add them at the wrong time.Oh awesome!! Thank you so much!! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this…means a lot ????
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ggpetrov said:abierose said:ggpetrov said:abierose said:@ggpetrov I agree about the feel of cetearyl alcohol and it not having a waxy feeling. 100% agree about the Glycerin. I’m fairly new to the 165 emulsifier…what would you suggest using? Thank you!
Well, I see your new formula is a big mess. First you mix the PQ 7 - which is cationic, with the Glyceryl stearate citrate - which is anionic. Also I see the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 is still present in the new formula. Why is that? Too much Cetearyl alcohol - I guess! Why you put the Allantoin at the cool down phase? Also, why you are need of so much oils and emolients? Why your formula doesn’t contain any polymeric thickeners? Also the percentages are totally messed up.
Thank you for your feedback. What should I expect to see when using pq7 and the gsc emulsifier together in the same formula? I haven’t had any issues with stability or anything as of yet and it is plenty thick enough…the Allantoin I have in the cool down ingredients to avoid possible crystallization from cooling too quickly…is this not accurate? Is there any reason not to have it in cool down? What about the percentages in my formula…can you be more specific? Thank you!
I don’t know what will happen if you mix an incompatible ingredients. I just don’t do that, because it doesn’t make a sense. I think you’d better read about the basics of the chemistry before making anything in that point. I use Allantoin in the all of my formulas, but I can’t imagine to put it into the cool emulsion, because it will not dissolve. The Allantoin is heat resistant, so I can’t see the problem here. What does it mean ” to avoid possible crystallization from cooling too quickly”, If you cool down your emulsion shockedly, maybe you could bring this effect. I don’t see a reason to put a PQ7 into a face cream. I haven’t worked with this ingredient. If you have to bring a conditioning effect, there are others ways - to use a cationic emulsifiers, for example. By the way I am not completely sure, but I think the Allantoin also have an anionic nature. I don’t know, just try to keep your recipes as simple as possible. If you wish to make a more complex products, you will need a lot of knowledge and experience. GSC is great emulsifier, so you could check the Evonik’s website with their example formulations, so it could be a good starting point.Thank you. That was very helpful. I will definitely check out the link that you sent.
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Abdullah said:Mixing incompatible ingredients doesn’t mean the emulsion should always break. It means those ingredients will not do what you want them to do and may be some other side effects.
I was once mixing EDTA vs Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl which are incompatible in emulsions. The emulsions were stable but i was felling some shortness of breath when i was applying the lotion to my body. When i found that these two are incompatible, removing each of it made a beautiful emulsion without any problem.
Thank you for helping me understand this better. The reaction you had from using two incompatible ingredients sounds pretty scary! I will definitely be more diligent about knowing my ingredients and their compatibility with other ingredients!
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@RedCoast thank you for the helpful feedback…you and @Graillotion ere immensely helpful in explaining how I should be using Allantoin. I appreciate you taking the time to explain things to me 🙂
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ggpetrov said:abierose said:@ggpetrov I agree about the feel of cetearyl alcohol and it not having a waxy feeling. 100% agree about the Glycerin. I’m fairly new to the 165 emulsifier…what would you suggest using? Thank you!
Well, I see your new formula is a big mess. First you mix the PQ 7 - which is cationic, with the Glyceryl stearate citrate - which is anionic. Also I see the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 is still present in the new formula. Why is that? Too much Cetearyl alcohol - I guess! Why you put the Allantoin at the cool down phase? Also, why you are need of so much oils and emolients? Why your formula doesn’t contain any polymeric thickeners? Also the percentages are totally messed up.
Thank you for your feedback. What should I expect to see when using pq7 and the gsc emulsifier together in the same formula? I haven’t had any issues with stability or anything as of yet and it is plenty thick enough…the Allantoin I have in the cool down ingredients to avoid possible crystallization from cooling too quickly…is this not accurate? Is there any reason not to have it in cool down? What about the percentages in my formula…can you be more specific? Thank you!
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RedCoast said:@abierose if you can, you should try dicaprylyl ether, dicaprylyl carbonate, or neopentyl glycol diheptanoate. They’re very light and silky! I think you should get them if possible, if only to help you experiment with heavier creams and textures. Like Graillotion said, emollients are a very personal thing… some people like drier and silkier emollients than others (whereas some people like creamier ones), even if they have the same skin type.You know, it’s like exploring perfume notes… infinite number of combinations, but there certain combinations you’ll favor more than others!
@Graillotion, ditto on the isoamyl laurate! It makes an awesome emollient for body butters! :smiley:@RedCoast thank you! I love needing to buy more ingredients! I used to buy clothes….now I buy cosmetic ingredients ????