[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

Ro plant give you 30% output. So other 70% have higher than normal levels of contaminants. It also depends on your source water & your RO system what your waste water contains. may also have bacterial load. because membrane filter also remove some bacteria.  

Thanks

[Abdullah]

When making emulsion you didn’t increase the temperature enough to keep both phases above there melting point so some of your ingredients hasn’t melted property. 

Heat your current product to 80°c and homogenize. Then see if the problem is solved.

[Abdullah]

Camel said:

Abdullah said:

She is not in direct sunlight even for 5 minutes per day.

The other main cause of melasma is hormones, but studies have shown that it can even be caused by LED lights from our phone, computer and TV screens. 

Thank for the link

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah What’s the final pH of your product? It might be due to a pH drift. Betaine usually interacts with SLES to form higher micellar structures. The interaction between the two is better when CAPB behaves as a cationic (pH close or below 5). When you are at a higher pH, the interaction is different, and thicker products can show a reduction in viscosity. When you mix SA with NaOH, you have a basic salt, and that one increases your solution pH. Try reducing the pH of the product you already made to see if viscosity increases.

pH is always 5.1. 
0.29% sodium hydroxide increases the pH of 1% salicylic acid to ~5. So there is no change in pH.

[Abdullah]

Camel said:

Does she use sunscreen? It could be caused by prolonged exposure to ultraviolet rays from the sun. Using a retinoid may help, as well as daily use of a sunscreen to prevent more of them. 

She is not in direct sunlight even for 5 minutes per day.

[Abdullah]

grapefruit22 said:

You mean something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Melasmablemish.jpg
It’s actually not something unusual even at a young age, it could be caused by the sun or hormones (only a doctor can confirm the cause). Hydroquinone would be the most effective, but I don’t know if it is allowed in your country or what your opinion is about this ingredient. You can also try azelaic acid (10-20%), or peeling with glycolic acid (at least 20-30%). The Ordinary has products with these ingredients.

Yes like that but smaller in sizes.

She is currently using 2% salicylic acid an AM and 10% lactic acid at pH.

What is your opinion about 2% alpha arbutin? 

[Abdullah]

Camel said:

I didn’t experience a reduction in viscosity when adding salicylic acid at 2% to my face wash. I tried both of your methods, but used HPMC at 1 and 2% as the thickener (the 2% was actually a bit too thick but still good). They were just as viscous as the versions without the salicylic acid.

As you know, I’m not an expert, so I’m interested in what others will have to say. 

Thanks. 
That was helpful. 

I forgot to mention i used 3% NACL to adjust viscosity.
Maybe salicylic acid and NACL doesn’t work together :#

[Abdullah]

natiyo123 said:

chemicalmatt said:

Lots of questions here…I am flooded…but here goes:
Affirmative, use vegetable shortening (hydrogenated vegetable oil) in your formula; edible grade works same as cosmetic grade; there is no difference; it is very comedogenic.

can I ask one last question?? assuming the rest of my formula has 0 comedogenicity potential, how much would u suggest to be my maximum usage level % . An approximate value to know where to start my tests???

Which oil would you use?
1-5% would not be a problem.

[Abdullah]

Adding LGN surfactants to the water phase normally produces smaller particle emulsions. Ulprospector. (I don’t know what does it mean).

What differences did you see compared to same formula all surfactants in oil face?

In the past i made two lotion with SSL+GMS+ cetyl alcohol, one all surfactants in oil phase, one with SSL in water phase. 

The one with SSL in water phase had lower viscosity.

[Abdullah]

i use this for in tank mixing.
Adjustable speed 300-850rpm 1kw.

Is this slow enough mixer?

[Abdullah]

@chemicalmatt thanks 

1. What other emulsifier was combined with cetyl alcohol : glyceryl stearate @ 3:1 and what quantity? Or it is just these two?

2. By too much shear, do you mean duration of homogenization or speed of homogenizer?
I have inline homogenizer with 2800rpm speed.

2. By slow mixing, do you mean mixing after the emulsion is formed?

[Abdullah]

If you are using lauryl glucoside in cold process it will not mix.

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Most structured cosmetic emulsions now have a lamellar gel network. Unfortunately (because not everyone has access to the equipment) the only way to really know if you got one is through x-ray diffraction. 

That is unfortunate ????

[Abdullah]

Karo_lina said:

Abdullah said:

What preservative are you using?

I would say add a chelating agent too, use only water soluble marketing ingredients, and use 1% or so lactic acid instead of glycerin and citric acid. It will decrease the pH and is better humectant than glycerin and has better skin feel too. 

You can feel even 1% of glycogen from a product if it is just glycerin and water. 

Also if you are not sure what your hydrosol is doing, reduce that to 0.1% and save yourself some money. 

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

Yes it is safe

[Abdullah]

Polyglyceryl-4 laurate or Polyglyceryl-4 Laurate (and) Polyglyceryl-6

Laurate will make Sprayable emulsions. 

[Abdullah]

Is this amount active surfactant percentage? 

If yes, then i would reduce total surface percentage.

There is no problem in that if you like it. 

[Abdullah]

Why dont you use HEC or HPMC instead of carbomer? 

I would say use 0.01% active pq7.

[Abdullah]

If it has sulfates it is soap free 

[Abdullah]

What preservative are you using?

I would say add a chelating agent too, use only water soluble marketing ingredients, and use 1% or so lactic acid instead of glycerin and citric acid. It will decrease the pH and is better humectant than glycerin and has better skin feel too. 

You can feel even 1% of glycogen from a product if it is just glycerin and water. 

Also if you are not sure what your hydrosol is doing, reduce that to 0.1% and save yourself some money. 

[Abdullah]

Rafacasti said:

Could you explain what exactly you mean by “waste water” from reverse osmosis? I don’t know if I understood.

Anyway. I think the well should not be an option, as this type of water can naturally contain heavy metals and pollutants, among other things. I’ve read many case studies about tap water from homes (from well sources) making people sick and turning pipes green. Of course, the exposure time in this case is so much longer than the application of cosmetics, but it can make your formulas more unstable even with the use of chelating agents.

Does your company’s tap water come from the same source (the well)? As tap water is treated to be usable on a daily basis (but not exactly consumable), I think it would be a better option (although perhaps not as suitable).

Have use used reverse osmosis filter?
When It filters the water it wastes a lot of water. I don’t know how to explain that ????.

TDS of our well water is around 700ppm. 
Filtered water is around 50-55ppm.
And that of waste water from RO is around 1200ppm.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

“3 more filters” - don’t know their construction or exclusion but figure they’d remove bacteria - water would still not be sterile.  How are they maintained?  If left wet - bacteria will populate.

Other three filters are sediment and carbon block filter.

They are filtering nonstop. 

[Abdullah]

1 

2 yes

3. Add more stabilizer

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Waste water from RO will have concentrated ions and and particulates that passed  filters from the entire volume of water treated. 

Thanks

What about impurities other than metal ions like bacteria and other undesirable things compared to unfiltered water?

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If you want to make a O/W emulsion, then the 30% should correspond to the GMS. But keep in mind that for better interaction between the high HLB surfactant and the los HLB surfactant, they have to show some similarities in their structure so they can interact properly (lile glyceryl stearate has with peg-100 stearate).

Is this the meaning of that sentence from ulprospector that GMS should be 30% or your idea about its usage rate?

In my cationic emulsion with 5% oil phase i use 2% GMS, 1% fatty alcohol, 1% SPDMA. 

This was about conditioner with nothing in oil phase. Only water and surfactants. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If SPDMA refers to Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, and since you usually neutralize (it changes from neutral to cationic) it to make it work as a conditioning agent, it wouldn’t formaly comply with the HLB method, since it is for non ionic surfactants. There are other methods that are actually more updated. Also, Cetyl alcohol is not usually considered a surfactant but a co-surfactant, helping build more rigid structures. GMS is usually considered a low HLB surfactant, and paired with PEG-100 stearate. Consider that when combining a low with a high HLB surfactant, they need to have good packing, and for that, part of the structure should interact significantly (that’s why GMS and PEG-100 stearate are used together). 

Thank
I in Google that even anionic surfactants like sulfates have hlb. For example SLS has hlb of 40.

Anyway, what about my calculation? Is that correct?