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Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Please help me understand this math of surfactants in conditioner

  • Please help me understand this math of surfactants in conditioner

    Posted by Abdullah on April 7, 2022 at 11:34 am

    “Ratio of high HLB to total surfactant has a significant impact on viscosity and the conditioning properties of conditioner. For optimum conditioning this ratio should be ~30%.” Ulprospector 

    does this mean if total surfactant is 4%(SPDMA+cetyl alcohol+ GMS), 1.2% should be high hlb SPDMA and 2.8% cetyl alcohol+GMS?

    Abdullah replied 1 year, 1 month ago 2 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • ketchito

    Member
    April 7, 2022 at 1:52 pm

    @Abdullah If SPDMA refers to Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, and since you usually neutralize (it changes from neutral to cationic) it to make it work as a conditioning agent, it wouldn’t formaly comply with the HLB method, since it is for non ionic surfactants. There are other methods that are actually more updated. Also, Cetyl alcohol is not usually considered a surfactant but a co-surfactant, helping build more rigid structures. GMS is usually considered a low HLB surfactant, and paired with PEG-100 stearate. Consider that when combining a low with a high HLB surfactant, they need to have good packing, and for that, part of the structure should interact significantly (that’s why GMS and PEG-100 stearate are used together). 

  • Abdullah

    Entrepreneur
    April 8, 2022 at 2:39 am

    ketchito said:

    @Abdullah If SPDMA refers to Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, and since you usually neutralize (it changes from neutral to cationic) it to make it work as a conditioning agent, it wouldn’t formaly comply with the HLB method, since it is for non ionic surfactants. There are other methods that are actually more updated. Also, Cetyl alcohol is not usually considered a surfactant but a co-surfactant, helping build more rigid structures. GMS is usually considered a low HLB surfactant, and paired with PEG-100 stearate. Consider that when combining a low with a high HLB surfactant, they need to have good packing, and for that, part of the structure should interact significantly (that’s why GMS and PEG-100 stearate are used together). 

    Thank
    I in Google that even anionic surfactants like sulfates have hlb. For example SLS has hlb of 40.

    Anyway, what about my calculation? Is that correct?

  • ketchito

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 12:49 pm

    @Abdullah If you want to make a O/W emulsion, then the 30% should correspond to the GMS. But keep in mind that for better interaction between the high HLB surfactant and the los HLB surfactant, they have to show some similarities in their structure so they can interact properly (lile glyceryl stearate has with peg-100 stearate).

  • Abdullah

    Entrepreneur
    April 8, 2022 at 2:38 pm

    ketchito said:

    @Abdullah If you want to make a O/W emulsion, then the 30% should correspond to the GMS. But keep in mind that for better interaction between the high HLB surfactant and the los HLB surfactant, they have to show some similarities in their structure so they can interact properly (lile glyceryl stearate has with peg-100 stearate).

    Is this the meaning of that sentence from ulprospector that GMS should be 30% or your idea about its usage rate?

    In my cationic emulsion with 5% oil phase i use 2% GMS, 1% fatty alcohol, 1% SPDMA. 

    This was about conditioner with nothing in oil phase. Only water and surfactants.