[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

I think 4% CDEA works as thickener in our formula. I think nacl requirement depends of brands of surfactants.   As my CAPB comes with SB. 

That is a lot of DEA.
How much total surfactant do you have?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Different folks publish different numbers - and remember, you have a product not a simple solution.

Will it be different if it is in the product or only water?

If yes then it should be better in product because there is surfactants and oil phase and other ingredients in product too so glycerin or NACL to water ratio is higher than only glycerin or NACL in water. Isn’t it so? 

[Abdullah]

Microformulation said:

How will you be measuring Aw?

I will not measure it myself. I will use the data from those who has already measured it. 
Like this one for example. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis should i ask them for pet test or something more specific? 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Eurofins has many global labs.  Maybe one somewhere near you might offer PET.  https://www.eurofins.com/contact-us/worldwide-interactive-map/

That % might effective.   Question is its stability through consumer use,
Historic - development of synthetic surfactant shampoo - classic parabens/benzoic were not effective and marketed products  used formaldehyde, then to formaldehyde releasers and in 80’s to isothiazo9linones..

Yes it is available in Pakistan. I will contact them. 

What would be the problem with it’s stability during consumer use? 

It has flip top cap and cosumer will not touch inside the bottle. 
Bottle is PET but is is not transparent and green color.

[Abdullah]

Camel said:

Abdullah said:

I said so because in my opinion 1% HEC will not have pleasant skin feel and i don’t know if lower amount of it will stabilize the emulsion. 
0.3% xanthan gum i know that can stabilize the emulsion. 

If you are ok with the feeling of your product then there is no problem with HEC.

I will try making a version with 0.3% xanthan gum instead of HEC and see how it compares. Thanks for your advice!

Please share your results with us too

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

The ingredient is in the freezer . Regarding product stability, you add BHA and BHT and put the product in a non transparent airless pump. It oxidises, but slower.

Got it
Thanks

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

The ingredient is in the freezer . Regarding product stability, you add BHA and BHT and put the product in a non transparent airless pump. It oxidises, but slower.

Got it
Thanks

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

It is very pricy but in case you want to have an option

https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/en/anti-wrinkle/9221-retinol.html

I keep mine in the freezer.

I think It is water, air and light that reduces it’s effectiveness. 

How does freezer help it’s stability? 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

0.98 might be optimal but >.90 and less than .98 is not prohibitive.
Not aware of Aw data for combinations.

It is also not combination. NACL was for cleansing product and glycerin for emulsion. 

Thanks for clarification.

[Abdullah]

@amitvedakar what % surfactants and NACL do you have in formula?

Do you have any other type of thickener too? 

[Abdullah]

I said so because in my opinion 1% HEC will not have pleasant skin feel and i don’t know if lower amount of it will stabilize the emulsion. 
0.3% xanthan gum i know that can stabilize the emulsion. 

If you are ok with the feeling of your product then there is no problem with HEC.

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

Sun! Those are called age spots but they are sunspots. Sunscreen, sunscreen and sunscreen again.

If she is prone to acne those might also be post-inflammatory pigmentation spots. Maybe she should consider retinol or prescription tretinoin (plus sunscreen). That might be killing two birds with one stone because retinoids are generally helpful with acne and somewhat reduce sun damage. And SPF 50 applied and reapplied very generously.

The problem here is that everything human made is low quality, even drugs. 

I have very good sales of my products not because i make very good products. But because other products here have very low quality and has very little effects even drugs.

So unless i make the product, i don’t think i can find a quality retinol product here. And i don’t think i can make a stable retinol product too. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Reliable Aw inhibition of pseudomonads typical of cosmetic contaminants - ~60% glycerol and ~20% NaCl.    Neither reliably kills.
Most common is Burkholderia cepacia - Pseudomonas aeruginosa is second but prob somewhat greater health risk.    

Thanks 

I saw in one website that required Aw for Pseudomonas aeruginosa is 0.98 and 15% glycerin or 5% NACL reduces Aw to below 0.98. so i thought these two ingredients at these amounts may be able to prevent the growth of Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Of course i will have preservatives and flip top cap package for all products too.

Will these two at least help preservation or they are useless at all?

And is Burkholderia cepacia only manufacturing contaminant or it can be introduced to product by consumer use too? 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

“Formalin” is sold at diff concentrations.  What is final est. formaldehyde concentration?
Do you have challenge data?

It is 37% formaldehyde.

With 0.1% formalin it is 0.037% formaldehyde in final product.

I dont have challenge test data as i currently don’t do it. 
It is not available in our country or our neighbor countries or at least i am not aware that what type of company performs these tests.
Sending it to EU or china + its shipping cost by air will be high for me and as i make a change in formula to improve it like every month or more, it will be too expensive to challenge test every month for several products. I have 14 products currently.

For formalin+ CMI MI i got the idea from Lonzaserve® PC blend.

[Abdullah]

Pattsi said:

Abdullah said:

She is currently using 2% salicylic acid an AM and 10% lactic acid at pH.

What is your opinion about 2% alpha arbutin? 

Among many, constantly or too much exfoliation may cause skin irritation and lead to hyperpigmentation. 2% alpha arbutin serum works quite well for young people. If the symptom persists longer than 6 months, should see a doctor.

She is using salicylic acid for acne for a long time and satisfied. She has recently started using 10% lactic acid to and she is telling me that lactic acid is increasing her acne. 

Can this be a sign of over exfoliation?

[Abdullah]

I would add an anionic surfactant, replace HEC with 0.3% xanthan gum or a blend of it. Not idea about HEC stabilizing at lower amount. 

[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

Have you tried without Lauryl glucoside?

Yes  

That formula was SLES+CAPB+SSL

[Abdullah]

grapefruit22 said:

@Abdullah, you need also high HLB surfactant, check this article: https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/4712/pcc-lamellar-gel-network-technology-a-primer/

I have SSL and SPDMA as high hlb surfactants

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Just some lecture from Dr. Ricardo Diez, that might change the way you look at lamellar gel networks :

Thank for video

[Abdullah]

Use only surfactants and HPMC. It will be clear. Then add each other ingredient one by one and see which one is the cause.

[Abdullah]

Thanks for sharing <3

[Abdullah]

grapefruit22 said:

Did you check the final pH of the solution after adding the salicylic acid? My guess is that the salicylic acid in the prepared pre-solution is not completely dissolved, and it continues to dissolve after adding surfactants, which causes a significant lowering of the pH value. According to information from salicylic acid supplier I got, if you want to convert salicylic acid to salicylate to make it water-soluble, you need to raise the pH to at least 10. If that doesn’t help, try thickening with Peg-120 methyl glucose dioleate or its equivalent.

As i am still making samples of 400g, yes salicylic acid is completely dissolved after adding surfactants and receiving high shear but pH is around 5. 

I made shampoo sample with gum and it thickened well. It just didn’t thicken with NACL.

I am currently selling serum with 2% salicylic acid at pH 5. You dont need pH 10 for it to dissolve. Just a homogenizer.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

You need to qualify your systems.  Water is the one ingredient whose quality is  known only after the product is made.

Got it
Thanks

[Abdullah]

mikethair said:

We have a RO unit. But we test regularly in our lab to maintain quality.

mikethair said:

We have a RO unit. But we test regularly in our lab to maintain quality.

Sorry, you test what? Filtered water or something else?
I couldn’t get it ????