[Abdullah]

MarkBroussard said:

@Abdullah

People with acne will normally use a suite of products, including leave-on products which is where they get the benefit, from the leave-on products, not the cleansers.  But, adding SA to a cleanser certainly will not hurt, it just won’t do very much in terms of effectiveness in delivering an active against acne.

That makes sense
Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Assume you’re looking at the skin protectant monograph.
What is your intent for the glycerine use?

This was as an example because i couldn’t tell you properly what i wanted to know about salicylic acid in cleansing product.

I am looking at acne monograph.
2% salicylic acid is an OTC active for ance. 
Now if it is in a cleansing product, it doesn’t do any benefit for ance vs simple cleansers. So how are all OTC salicylic acid cleansers which doesn’t do anything for ance being allowed to claim so?

Salicylic acid for ance from cleanser is as useless as glycerin for skin protection from a cleanser. Isn’t it? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks.

The particular thing i want to know is this. 

For example: 40% glycerin is an OTC active ingredient. you can use 40% glycerin in a lotion, claim for skin protection and register the product as OTC. 

Now if you use 40% glycerin in a cleanser, can you register it as OTC and claim skin protection from it? 

[Abdullah]

ozgirl said:

I remember reading somewhere that the issue is that young children already have potentially high salicylate exposure due to teething gels and thus adding an extra exposure may make it unsafe.

The European Cosmetics regulations are based on science so I personally wouldn’t risk it when you have an alternative that is safe and works.

Salicylic Acid is also restricted under ASEAN Cosmetic regulations and is not to be used in products for children under 3 (except shampoo).

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Rockstargirl said:

The ingredients and % determine if is a drug or a cosmetic. Soap is a cosmetic. So if they make a “cures acne” claim - that is incorrect for a cosmetic. “Helps the appearance of acne” may be more suitable. The claim itself does not make it a drug. The man power of health authorities is not great and lots of this falls under the radar. However the fines levied when caught are no joke. It’s not worth the risk. Research what claims are allowed and the wording before marketing. I believe BP and Sal acid may make acne claims however “ cure” is not a word I would use. 

Thanks 

One particular question. 
Are OTC products controled by regulations to see if it realy do what it claims?

[Abdullah]

By using cationic surfactants like SPDMA and BAPDMA you feel that your hair volume has increased because it doesn’t weight down the hair like BTMS does. 
This was my experience 

[Abdullah]

@ozgirl thanks 

As i am not in Europe, this doesn’t apply to me. In fact there is no regulation about it here.
My concern is about it’s safety for babies.
Is it safe for babies?

Is it allowed in in US or any other improved county in baby leave on product? 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma so these people with acne are leaving a soap with salicylic acid for five minutes on their face to get some benefit or they are rinsing it before one minute and getting no benefit for acne. Am i correct? 

[Abdullah]

MarkBroussard said:

@abdullah:

Yes, any cleanser containing 2% SA and making Acne claims under the FDA monograph would be an OTC.  That is primarily for marketing purposes so you can market it as an Acne OTC product.

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

@Perry @MarkBroussard @Pharma   so what about OTC benzoyl peroxide cleansers and salicylic acid cleansers and soap’s?

Can a product that doesn’t do any benefit except just being a cleanser be called and registered as an OTC drug? 
If salicylic acid from an OTC cleanser or soap is not doing anything then it is just a cleanser or soap called OTC with doing nothing, right? 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma WOW

Is it only salicylic acid that doesn’t do anything for acne and dandruff from rinse off product or benzoyl peroxide also doesn’t do anything from rinse off product? 

[Abdullah]

Yes that is the problem. 

In large batch it needs more mixing so the percentage of NACL would be 2% in every part. If it is in powder form and little mixing, concentration of NACL in one part would be too much and in another part too little so they cant provide viscosity.

If you have made the same formula in smaller sample quantity and the viscosity was enough then the problem in this big batch is not enough mixing. By mixing more its viscosity will increase.

[Abdullah]

If you want to save this batch you can always use a polymer like HPMC or xanthan gum depending on your mixing machine

[Abdullah]

You can use more NACL and see if that solves the problem. 

Also, are you sure it is coco glucoside and not decyl Glucoside?

Also don’t use fragrance and glycerin in a sample and see if it is the cause.

[Abdullah]

Is it 10% SLES paste that equals 7% active surfactant?

Have you made any sample with current batch of raw materials that had enough viscosity?

Have you tried more NACL for increasing viscosity?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

I’ve no specified number. My experience has been in shampoos and hand wash.

This is also a Shampoo formula. Low surfactant and inexpensive.

[Abdullah]

What is it supposed to do?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

%

Currently i am using
185ppm formaldehyde as (formalin)

 0.45ppm CMI MI

 0.1%EDTA

 pH 5.1 in cleansing products. 

My question was if the ratio of surfactants is 4/1/1 anionic/amphoteric/non-ionic, if total surfactant is 6%, we need to test for mold too. At what percentage of total surfactant at this ratio we don’t need to bother with mold?

Package is flip top cap. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

I’d test that one as prototype.

Got it
Thanks

If this is the ratio, what percentage of total surfactants should be in system so that you would not bother with mold for surfactant products as a general rule? 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis is it so only in surfactant products with high amount of anionic surfactant or any surfactant product?

For example when a product has

2% SLS
2% SLES
1% CAPB
1% APG
Total 6% active surfactant with 4% being anionic. 

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis complete elimination of yeast & mold too in 7 days? 

[Abdullah]

I am testing small amounts of 3 oils ( bitter almond oil, sweet almond oil and unrefined hempseed oil) for oxidation since last year to see what happens at the end.
They are placed in Sunny window, transparent package most of the time. I am sure that they have oxidized a lot because the texture has changed and grainy things has formed specially in sweet almond oil and hempseed oil. 
The only thing that hasn’t changed at all is the smell. Bitter almond and unrefined hempseed oil has strong aroma. 
So i think your problem is not oil oxidation.

After how much time the smell turns bad?
I also think it may be contamination.

Have you tested for contamination after the smell and color change?

If not, one simple test would be to add 0.3% EDTA liquid+ 1% DMDM hydantoin, formalin or CMI MI. If the smell changed it means it was contaminated, high load of these strong preservatives killed the microbes and now it is not contaminated, that is why bad smell has gone. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If it’s just plain water, it shouldn’t.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@ketchito so if a Shampoo has cationic guar+Amodimethicone, rinsing more will not reduce the amount of silicone+polymer deposited in hair. Am i correct? 

[Abdullah]

Gordof said:

Hmm well, I guess it’s likely that you can rinse Cationic Products from your hair with water alone due to the fact that they are in general soluble in water. The amount that gets taken off is not completely as we can see in the different tests that show that cationic polymers in shampoo help with combability. but I would guess the longer you Rinse off the more is taken off. 

for Silikons that is different silicons will not be washed off easily with just water, you can try that by putting the silicon on the back of your hand and look how long, it will take until all the silicone is rinsed off. It’s the “big” issue with silicon in hair care Products it can lead to a build-up if used too much. 

Thanks 

So you mean if a Shampoo has cationic guar and Amodimethicone, rinsing more doesn’t mean less silicone will deposit?