[Abdullah]

What is the purpose of this product?

What benefits you want to see and why you want to make such a product?

A simple cleanser with just 4-5% SLES will be a better cleanser and less drying and much less expensive that your product.

Your problem maybe not enough heating or too much surfactants. 

[Abdullah]

ggpetrov said:

Abdullah said:

ggpetrov said:

Abdullah said:

@ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?

1 Usually I use about 3%, but I always pair the emulsifiers. 

Thanks 
For me BTMS dry and powdery feel was noticable from 0.5-1% BTMS. What percentage of pg3 stearate will have that feeling of 0.5-1% BTMS if it can have it al all?

I’ve just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS + 0.5% GMS Citrate + 1% Cetearyl alcohol and 8% fat phase. Also I have used 0.2% Sodium Carbomer. Keep in mind that Softfeel tends to thicken the emulsion, so with this incredients I’ve got a thick lotion. The sensorial properties of the emulsion are wondefull. You have enough playtime, but when you finish, the emulsion dissapears literally. The feeling is that you have nothing on your skin, and even more you almost can’t leave a fingerprints on the objects. Meanwhile the skin is fresh and soft.

Thanks 
That is the type of feeling i like too.

[Abdullah]

@ketchito thanks 

My point was aslo just to know if the amount of free surfactant below CMC of each surfactant will interact and make micceles so total free surfactant is not the same as the sum of total free surfactant of each surfactant. 

[Abdullah]

Leaving SLES on skin doesn’t have any benefit for skin but we can guess how mild it is.

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

On average, perhaps. In any specific instance, perhaps not.
You may be taking the metaphor of a micelle a bit too seriously. They do not last in some specific form for any extended period of time.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

I suppose theoretically if enough water was lost you could push the system to the other side of the salt curve and start losing viscosity.

See in this diagram in this surfactant system that viscosity peaks at a salt concentration around 1% and drops off around 1.6%
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/shows-the-salt-curves-for-the-SLES-alone-and-in-the-presence-of-the-four-additives-The_fig13_255766342

Thanks 
I thought the ratio of NACL & surfactants will be the same so viscosity will not change but i got the point.

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah It’s always better to add xanthan gum at the start, where it has more water available, and you can use more mixing to disperse it without risk of aeration.
do you mean add xanthan gum to water before adding any surfactant?
I am using inline homogenizer for large batches so aeration is not a big problem.
 Now, formulas thickened with high levels of NaCl tend to dramatically reduce viscosity in a warmer environment, so there’s a risk of sedimentation from your pearl (put a sample in the oven and see what happens).
this is a good point. Temperature here now is the hottest it can get. I made these samples for this temperature. I will check them in cold temperature to see how thick they will become.

[Abdullah]

ggpetrov said:

Abdullah said:

@ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?

1 Usually I use about 3%, but I always pair the emulsifiers. 

Thanks 
For me BTMS dry and powdery feel was noticable from 0.5-1% BTMS. What percentage of pg3 stearate will have that feeling of 0.5-1% BTMS if it can have it al all?

[Abdullah]

@ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?

[Abdullah]

What do you like most about pg3 stearate? 

In my opinion amount of pg3 stearate is ≤40%

[Abdullah]

“Too much salt makes worm-like micelles go lamellar, and shampoo becomes thin.”do  you have the source?

[Abdullah]

As Graillotion said HEC is very popular for this purpose.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

A formaldehyde releaser with 2/1 Methyl/Propyl was the classic preservative combination for emulsions for 30 years. Combine with a solvent like prop glycol or in heated water phase - not in oil phase.  Partitioning can be an issue and should be addressed.

Does Paraben need to be heated to dissolve in water?

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis parabens are not very water soluble. If we use 0.2% methyl Paraben & 0.1% propyl Paraben with phenoxyethanol in emulsion or water only products, how can we keep the parabens in water phase? 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah It depends. If you’re slightly above the pKa, you might find part of the acid protonated, and part unprotonated. The higher the pH (above pKa), the higher the amount of unprotonated acid.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

1. You need to have both species in the same (liquid) form for assisted deposition to happen, but EGDS is usually floating around as crystals

2. Glyceryl oleate forms W/O emulsions; if you use it as emollient for instance, in a shampoo and in the presence of cationic guar, then guar could flocculate some Glyceryl oleate’s droplets and help them deposit during rinsing

Thanks ????

[Abdullah]

@Perry can i rename this post to “suggestions on this facewash formula for acne prone skin”

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

Yes, the micelles break down & reform.

The system is dynamic & the picture you shared is simply a metaphorical snapshot in time. The molecules don’t actually stay in positions like that for very long. This video gives a better sense of what is going on. But remember it is also just a metaphorical illustration. 

https://youtu.be/tn4Cjcc5fxw

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

Changing the product will solve the problem.
You can ask them if you change the part, for how long will you not need to change it again. 
If they said you will never need to change it again, it means only this product has problem. Changing the product or brand both will help.
If they said you will need to change it every this amount of time then you need to change the brand.

A good homogenizer doesn’t need to change anything regularly. 

[Abdullah]

No it is anionic

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

Abdullah said:

…

All in mol ratio
1. What is the best ratio for maximum emulsion stability?
2. What is the best ratio for maximum conditioning in hair conditioner?
3. Can liquid emulsifier like polyglyceryl-4 laurate+ GMS or fatty alcohol make LGN products?
4. Can SLS or SLES+ GMS or fatty alcohol make LGN product?
5. If GMS is used as LGN promotor, what should be counted as it’s molecular weight?
For example

GMS is 358.57g/mol(google search

GMS with 40% mono, 50% di & 5% tri is 500.512g/mol (my calculation)

GMS with 90% is 385.215 g/mol(my calculation)

So if i am using GMS with 40% mono, should i count it as 500.512 g/mol or 358.57 g/mol?

1. As said, the optimal ratio of a given formulation (if said formulation even has one) depends on the formulation itself and can not be calculated.

2. See N° 1.

3. AFAIK laurate is the short end of hydrocarbon chains which still forms liquid crystals. However, the low melting point becomes an issue and may result in very fluidic liquid crystals.

4. Yes

5. Yes (is’t still an estimate because all the other cosmetic ingredients are oft not pure and have only average MW but that’s usually close enough).

Thanks

[Abdullah]

What is the motor power and what was the price of product?

Homogenizers work for very long period of time without any problem. 

This problem is not common. Looks like this particular product you have purchased had problem.

[Abdullah]

Graillotion said:

Not sure where you are located…but the sister brand with Dynamic (EU based)….sells the stand.

Fixed emulsifier homogenizer Misceo 250F (misceo-cosmetics.com)

It will fit your MiniPro.

For how long can this one work?

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks a lot for such explanation.

Some more questions

All in mol ratio
1. What is the best ratio for maximum emulsion stability?
2. What is the best ratio for maximum conditioning in hair conditioner?
3. Can liquid emulsifier like polyglyceryl-4 laurate+ GMS or fatty alcohol make LGN products?
4. Can SLS or SLES+ GMS or fatty alcohol make LGN product?
5. If GMS is used as LGN promotor, what should be counted as it’s molecular weight?
For example

GMS is 358.57g/mol(google search

GMS with 40% mono, 50% di & 5% tri is 500.512g/mol (my calculation)

GMS with 90% is 385.215 g/mol(my calculation)

So if i am using GMS with 40% mono, should i count it as 500.512 g/mol or 358.57 g/mol?

[Abdullah]

Thanks a lot @”Dr Catherine Pratt”

My product is simple 2% salicylic acid in water neutralized with sodium hydroxide to dissolve it in water.
In that line of products i only use functional ingredients and reduce anything else as much as possible so no need to use fragrance or marketing ingredients. 
Kind of trying to copy The ordinary type but more simpler.

I have piroctone olamine but can’t dissolve it in simple water solutions for leave on products.
Any idea how dissolve even 0.1% piroctone olamine in water without using glycols?