[Abdullah]

What is your formula and pH?

[Abdullah]

grapefruit22 said:

@Abdullah Maybe you can take a look at what ingredients are generally used by other moisturizing face cleansers - for example Fresh Soy Cleanser is quite popular.

Have you used this product? 

If yes, what did you like about it? 

When i checked the ingredients, it has only coco glucoside for cleansing which can dry the skin, everything else looks to be below 1% and nothing in it looks like a skin conditioner to me. 

https://www.sephora.com/product/soy-face-cleanser-P7880

Aqua (Water), Coco-Glucoside, Butylene Glycol, Glycerin, Propanediol, Xanthan Gum, 1,2-Hexanediol, Polyglyceryl-10 Laurate, Centaurea Cyanus Flower Water, Cucumis Sativus (Cucumber) Fruit Extract, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Borago Officinalis Seed Oil, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Rosa Damascena Extract, Rosa Damascena Flower Water, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Malva Sylvestris (Mallow) Flower Extract, Rosa Damascena Flower Oil, Tocopherol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Caprylyl Glycol, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Esters, Silica, Citric Acid, Pentylene Glycol, Caramel, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate.

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

@Abdullah @ketchito I  am making dishwash liquid and I  have seen mixing the fragrance and food colour,if  not in particular sequence, the liquid lost its viscosity. Previously you told fragrance oil should be mixed in CAPB and I did so but didn’t get purpose. So please while making these liquid when we should add this fragrance and colour, previously before r after particular step. One more thing what we should use fragrance oil or fragrance liquid extract. I am using essential oil.

What is your formula and procedure?

[Abdullah]

Bill_Toge said:

@Abdullah I found 2-5% w/w to be effective

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Lauryl glucoside needs heat. 

Just heat it, mix it and cool it. It will gain viscosity. 
Decyl is difficult to thicken.

As Paprik said, use this shampoo, if you like it then ok. If you didn’t like it then no need to find out how to thicken it. 
Change the formula completely. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Abdullah said:

For glucoside i was talking about coco or lauryl glucoside.

Think more about cetyl or cetearyl glucoside for emulsifying. Lauryl and coco glucosides behave more like detergents.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@Herbnerd are you in china? 

[Abdullah]

Isopropyl myristate

[Abdullah]

saeedulfat said:

Abdullah said:

Gums like xanthan, guar or HPMC are very compatible with NACL.

Great . Xanthine gum concentration 0.5 or 1% enough and sodium benzoate 1.2% as preservative right or increase ?

What equipments do you have for mixing? 

Xanthan gum needs high shear mixing.

For preservative i only recommend formaldehyde or a releaser or CMI MI in shampoo with some EDTA and small amount ≤0.5% sodium benzoate as helper. 

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

saeedulfat said:

Abdullah yes the first time viscosity is ok . When made in cold season and get to hot season this time the shampoo lose viscosity.and what about the carbomer for viscosity control ?

You can use whatever you want but i am more on the side of budget friendly ingredients and there are a lot of good and budget friendly options like guar gum, xanthan gum, HPMC and more that you can choose. As you have no problem with NACL the best option is NACL. 

Best way is to purchase some liquid SLES or make a 25% solution from paste with high shear, then makes a sample with that, then add NACL in small amounts and see with how much NACL you get desired viscosity without shifting to other side of salt curve. 

@Abdullah so how much of salt for desired viscosity can measured by experiment and experiment only? Am I right ?

I mean do like this 
Make the shampoo, it will be water thin 

Add 0.2% NACL, mix and see the viscosity

Then add 0.2% more, mix and see the viscosity. 

Do like this until you reach the viscosity you want. 

Then note that. 

[Abdullah]

Thank you all 

I live in Afghanistan and I don’t use sunscreen for two reasons.
1. My face is not exposed to direct sunlight. 
Maximum would be 5 minutes. 
2. Even if i want to use, i cant find a good sunscreen. This is the real problem. 

Is such discoloration caused by UVA or UVB? 

[Abdullah]

Gums like xanthan, guar or HPMC are very compatible with NACL.

[Abdullah]

For glucoside i was talking about coco or lauryl glucoside.

[Abdullah]

saeedulfat said:

Abdullah yes the first time viscosity is ok . When made in cold season and get to hot season this time the shampoo lose viscosity.and what about the carbomer for viscosity control ?

You can use whatever you want but i am more on the side of budget friendly ingredients and there are a lot of good and budget friendly options like guar gum, xanthan gum, HPMC and more that you can choose. As you have no problem with NACL the best option is NACL. 

Best way is to purchase some liquid SLES or make a 25% solution from paste with high shear, then makes a sample with that, then add NACL in small amounts and see with how much NACL you get desired viscosity without shifting to other side of salt curve. 

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

But, is it really necessary? If you put the paste into water and maybe heat it a little, doesn’t it turn into thin solution quickly? 
(Just guessing, I’ve never worked with it). For me you are the SLS and SLES expert  

No it is not necessary. 
If you don’t use high shear or heat, this is one another option to make the process easier. It works better in products that need more NACL and less SLES. 

[Abdullah]

Add CAPB and NACL

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

I don’t think you need salt to get SLES dissolved? At least I have never heard of it.

The final pH is 6? Ok, you are facing another possible problem - microbial contamination. Even though you are using probably 400% of recommended input of Sodium Benzoate, it won’t work as it needs low pH (<5). It is also known to be quite irritating (even at 0.3%). You need to add some Bactericidal, such as DMDM Hydantoin. 

Mixing high amount of salt reduces the viscosity of SLES paste so it will become easier yo work with.

[Abdullah]

Abdullah said:

@Bill_Togewhat percentage of total surfactant should be sodium cocoyl glutamate at least to be able to notice the skin feel? 

What percentage of total surfactant should be sodium cocoyl glutamate at least to be able to notice the skin feel? 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Non ionic helps stabilize ionic emulsions. Because of ionic charge, ionic emulsifiers cannot grow big micelles, and non ionic surfactants help reduce repulsion between charged head groups.

1. Doesn’t more repulsion between charged head groups mean more stability?

2. Do big micceles mean more stability?

3. With Behentrimonium chloride hair conditioner for example, if we use fatty alcohol or glyceryl stearate, don’t they function as non-ionic surfactant and stabilize it?

4. In conditioner, will adding some alkyl Glucoside or CAPB increase stability? 
If not, why not?
They are non-ionic, they increase micceles size & they reduce repulsion too.

[Abdullah]

You said your viscosity is lost after several months. It viscosity ok at first? 

If yes, heat some product that has enough viscosity slowly to evaporate some water and see if viscosity increase or decrease.

If viscosity decreased it means you have too much salt as Paprik said and also water is evaporating from your final package.

[Abdullah]

@Bill_Togewhat percentage of total surfactant should be sodium cocoyl glutamate at least to be able to notice the skin feel? 

[Abdullah]

Bill_Toge said:

Abdullah said:

By methocel, do you mean Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose or something else? 
Can you write the inci name please.

a high-viscosity grade of hydroxypropyl methylcellulose

Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish Just to contribute on the topic, cationic polymers make anionic cleansers milder by reducing the amount of single anionics, promoting micelle formation. This can also be done by CAPB, so increasing the level of CAPB and reducing the anionic can also work.

Does other polymers like xanthan gum also have any effect on mildness or single anionics?

[Abdullah]

That depends on what type of product are you making, what features other than thickening do you want from your thickener and, what type of thickener is easier for you to work with, what price and other factors. 

For cleansing products i prefer NACL and xanthan gum because they are inexpensive, i have them available anyway and i have no problem in working with these too. 

[Abdullah]

zetein said:

https://patents.google.com/patent/JP6563191B2/en

How to download it in English?