[Abdullah]

@ketchito thanks 
I thought SLES and AOS are stable in hard water.

What do you think about AOS stability in hard water? 

[Abdullah]

mikethair said:

In our experience, at a pH of 10, a preservative is not required. We always do a microbial test and continue regular microbial testing beyond the shelf life. In 10 years have never had any positive microbial results.

Thanks for sharing

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah the general idea is what @ketchito said about your system is not too sensitive to salt but what I suggest is to add some CAPB and CDEA then delating glucoside. 5%  of slat is too much I suggest to start with 0.5% with path 0.1%.

I did make a sample with 4% SLES and 5% NACL increased it’s viscosity enough. 
That is why i used NACL in this formula too as SLS is more sensitive to NACL than SLES in theory.

[Abdullah]

evchem2 said:

Level of surfactants is low, is this for hand washing clothes? You’ll need more surfactant if you want to salt thicken.

What grade (molecular weight) CMC are you using, and is it for antiredepostion?  you could use a higher molecular weight to thicken your fomrulation, but I don’t know what impact (if any) that would have on washing performance

It is bfor both hand and machine washing.

I do t know about about the molecular weight of CMC. 

Yes it is for anti redeposition.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Halomonas Nesterenkonia Bacillus are the genera whose species can grow in high pH products

Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Abdullah said:

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks 

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?

@Abdullah LABSA is more or less hydrophobic (if you compare it to regular anionics, like SLES). When you add salt, there is a point in which it just salts out. You can accelerate the process if you put it in the fridge. If you don’t see turbidity let’s say for a month, you’re fine…but if there’s a problem, you’ll see turbidity even after one day, and eventually, the turbidity will turn into a precipitate that will go to the bottom. One option to improve this is neutralizing with TEA instead of NaOH.

That actually happened. 
My sample with 5% NACL precipitated. So that precipitation is from too much NACL. Correct?

[Abdullah]

Graillotion said:

The salt curve is a bell curve…once you exceed optimum…then you lose viscosity.

Generally it is done in small increments…say .1% variations.  I would start with 1%..and work up and down from there…at the .1% variations.  Hehehe….and you can fill a thimble with what I know about this topic…hehehe.

The problem is didn’t get any viscosity at all. 

I will add it in smaller increments next time and see what happens.

[Abdullah]

ozgirl said:

What would be the be benefit of adding more than required to increase viscosity as you run the risk of hitting the other side of the salt curve.

The best way to increase viscosity would be to increase the surfactant actives.

Too much salt might also cause corrosion of metals in the washing machine.

I didn’t know how much NACL wa required so i started adding in increments of 0.5% but up to 5% viscosity didn’t change at all. 

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look. 

Fekher said:

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look. 

My purpose was also to increase viscosity but even with up to 5% NACL in this formula, viscosity didn’t change. Do you have any idea why?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

The same ones that grow in Liquid Tide.  Odor, color and clarity compromised.

Got it 
Thanks

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Don;t recall the specific phosphate but figure that’ll work.

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks 

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?

[Abdullah]

Phenoxyethanol is the mildest of these preservatives that you have mentioned. 
Why do you want to avoid it? 
 

[Abdullah]

You can use any surfactant at pH 7 but as Pharma said: why pH 7?

[Abdullah]

If i dont use preservative in this product at pH 10, which microorganism will grow in it?
And as this product will not be in contact with human skin, what is the side effects if the product got contaminated?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Maybe not CMI - it’s unstable at 10 so effect is very time limited
Benzoisothiazolinone is ,prob more common in this category.

Got it 
Thanks

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

I don’t recall the levels.   It’s been way too long - Sorry

Ok no problem
By phosphate did you mean STPP?

[Abdullah]

If we can mark or like comments and then there be a place where we can all those comments that we have liked or marked, that would be very helpful for people who regularly reviews the discussions he liked befor.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Then use phosphate

Do you mean STPP or any other phosphate?

And at what percentage should i use it? 

We have hard water. ~700 TDS

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis i have no restrictions on which ingredient should i not use. 
I should import anything other than those mentioned above. So which one do you suggest i use in the future? 

[Abdullah]

I currently have only these available locally. 
Tetra sodium EDTA 
Citric acid 
Sodium bicarbonate

Which one should i use or should i use  a blend?

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Even though the most significant “color protection” effect comes from the use of a polymer (the more hydrophobic, the better),

What type of polymers? 
Can you name some top ones

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

https://tide.com/en-us/our-commitment/ingredients-and-safety/tide-detergent-ingredients-a-to-z

Does Modified Cellulose in their list mean CMC or it can be any Cellulose like HPMC too? 

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

Always together brother???? @Abdullah  actually they are more then thickener both are used as anti-redeposition agents and they have more then that function in detergent. 
  @GeorgeBenson I guess it is low quality product soo far from conventional level. 

Will 0.5% xanthan gum also function as anti-redeposition the same as CMC?

[Abdullah]

0.1% or less