[Abdullah]

I don’t know about make up removal but in Shampoo it is usually 0.2-0.5% when diluted.

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@MarkBroussard 1% to 2% as actif mater? 

In my opinion If you don’t dilute it with water, 2% active surfactant is too strong. 

[Abdullah]

ozgirl said:

Have a search for Ernest W Flick’s Advanced Cleaning Product Formulations books as they contains lots of basic cleaning product formulations from lots of suppliers. You can usually find a free pdf copy if you can’t access the original books. It can give you guidance of concentrations of standard ingredients by looking at other formulations.

Thanks a lot ????

[Abdullah]

Lab said:

Hi!

The value in Kg is always on dry clothes, so an 8Kg washing machine can fit up to 8Kg of dry clothes. Different fabrics and types of clothing (bath, bed, cloths) will weigh in different ways and have different configurations in there taking up more or less space.

The indicator in Kg is the maximum that the washing machine can support, but if you can’t put more pieces… then you’ve reached the space limit, not the volume it can support. Normally filling 2/3 of the capacity by volume ensures a quality wash. Forcing too much weight can generate overload and compromise the motor.

Also, manufacturers don’t usually guarantee that the washer, operating at its maximum (8Kg in this case), will perform at its best either - sometimes less is more!

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah I guess the capacity of clothes with water can put it to the laundry machine. 

Thanks

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

Too harsh for shampoo and personal care. Also not very efficient metal chelation (K-value) at acidic pH.

Got it 

Thanks

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

I’d add 2.0% or so. It will bump up your pH to 12 or so, but also factor into detergency too. 

Thanks 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Can’t answer that question but there are EDTA methods for determining hardness - perhaps execute with reverse intent.

I have TDS meter. Isn’t that accurate to determine water hardness?

[Abdullah]

@Cst4Ms4Tmps4 it is according to suppliers data 

It may not be and effective antifungal alone but it is better than DMDM hydantoin according to them. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Used pyrophosphate in cleaners

Thanks

[Abdullah]

I think Sodium hydroxymethylglycinate has better anti fungal activity too. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If you compare both specs, the first one doesn’t have Ammonium chloride (or very little, 0.01%), while the second one has 0.22%. Inorganic chloridez have an impact on CMC of anionic surfactants (they reduce it), and that might explain why the second one has a lower CMC. What surprises me is the vistosity at 25°C of both (there seems to be a missmatch), but well.

Are you saying that ammonium chloride or sodium chloride reduces the CMC of ALS, SLS or SLES? 

Their viscosity difference surprised me too. Big difference. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I wouldn’t say SLES is stable in hard water. It has less sensitivity to the effect of divalent ions than SLS, but can still be affected. CAPB is for sure insensitive to hard water, and it reduces SLS sensitivity by hindering the high anionic charge (it forms mixed micelles with anionics).

Is it the positive charge in CAPB that reduces the sensitivity of SLS to CAPB or it is the mixed micelles that are formed between SLS & CAPB that reduces SLS sensitivity to hard water?

[Abdullah]

@ketchito thanks 
I thought SLES and AOS are stable in hard water.

What do you think about AOS stability in hard water? 

[Abdullah]

mikethair said:

In our experience, at a pH of 10, a preservative is not required. We always do a microbial test and continue regular microbial testing beyond the shelf life. In 10 years have never had any positive microbial results.

Thanks for sharing

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah the general idea is what @ketchito said about your system is not too sensitive to salt but what I suggest is to add some CAPB and CDEA then delating glucoside. 5%  of slat is too much I suggest to start with 0.5% with path 0.1%.

I did make a sample with 4% SLES and 5% NACL increased it’s viscosity enough. 
That is why i used NACL in this formula too as SLS is more sensitive to NACL than SLES in theory.

[Abdullah]

evchem2 said:

Level of surfactants is low, is this for hand washing clothes? You’ll need more surfactant if you want to salt thicken.

What grade (molecular weight) CMC are you using, and is it for antiredepostion?  you could use a higher molecular weight to thicken your fomrulation, but I don’t know what impact (if any) that would have on washing performance

It is bfor both hand and machine washing.

I do t know about about the molecular weight of CMC. 

Yes it is for anti redeposition.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Halomonas Nesterenkonia Bacillus are the genera whose species can grow in high pH products

Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Abdullah said:

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks 

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?

@Abdullah LABSA is more or less hydrophobic (if you compare it to regular anionics, like SLES). When you add salt, there is a point in which it just salts out. You can accelerate the process if you put it in the fridge. If you don’t see turbidity let’s say for a month, you’re fine…but if there’s a problem, you’ll see turbidity even after one day, and eventually, the turbidity will turn into a precipitate that will go to the bottom. One option to improve this is neutralizing with TEA instead of NaOH.

That actually happened. 
My sample with 5% NACL precipitated. So that precipitation is from too much NACL. Correct?

[Abdullah]

Graillotion said:

The salt curve is a bell curve…once you exceed optimum…then you lose viscosity.

Generally it is done in small increments…say .1% variations.  I would start with 1%..and work up and down from there…at the .1% variations.  Hehehe….and you can fill a thimble with what I know about this topic…hehehe.

The problem is didn’t get any viscosity at all. 

I will add it in smaller increments next time and see what happens.

[Abdullah]

ozgirl said:

What would be the be benefit of adding more than required to increase viscosity as you run the risk of hitting the other side of the salt curve.

The best way to increase viscosity would be to increase the surfactant actives.

Too much salt might also cause corrosion of metals in the washing machine.

I didn’t know how much NACL wa required so i started adding in increments of 0.5% but up to 5% viscosity didn’t change at all. 

[Abdullah]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look. 

Fekher said:

@Abdullah most important function of Na CL is thickner in detergent, I made a post for Na Cl I guess it is interesting for professional take a look. 

My purpose was also to increase viscosity but even with up to 5% NACL in this formula, viscosity didn’t change. Do you have any idea why?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

The same ones that grow in Liquid Tide.  Odor, color and clarity compromised.

Got it 
Thanks

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Don;t recall the specific phosphate but figure that’ll work.

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah I’ve never seen a formula with more than 2% of NaCl. While electrolytes increase the detergency of anionic surfactants, there is a salt curve that dictates how much salt your system can resist, and for that you need to do the tests. Also, since you also have LABSA, don’t forget to put a sample in the fridge.

Thanks 

What is the problem with LABSA and why do i need to test it in fridge if i can ask?