[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Sorry - “ops” as in  operations.  

Thanks

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Large manufacturers can also use continuous production. 
Also consider the efficiency of op’s -  that big concerns have few manufacturing plants and run these 24/7/365

Thanks 

What does op’s mean?

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

We had 5 tanks, 2 batches a day. If they were making the same flavor of shampoo, they just rinsed out the container & made another batch on top

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks 

So were they sanitizing and cleaning the tank after each batch or not?

Were they making about 10 batches in 10 production lines, one batch each or were they making 10 batches in one line and machine? 

[Abdullah]

Greasy feel after washing with C14-16 olefin sulfonate meant it is from your conditioning ingredients, not a surfactant. 
Maybe from amodimethicone. 

[Abdullah]

Thanks

[Abdullah]

How much is the conditioning ingredients in active percentage?

And how is the foam profile of this product? 

[Abdullah]

pH 4 is easier to preserve than pH 5.

If you have pH 4, more of it will be in acid form and it will not dissolve in water and will precipitate.

What i want to say is, if 0.07% DHA in acid form can’t preserve your product, then add another anti fungal preservative with it. Increasing DHA won’t help. 

Look at the commercial preservative blends that has DHA in it. There isn’t a blend that gives you more than 0.07% DHA in final product at maximum recommended use. 

[Abdullah]

Whatever amount you add, some of it will be in acid form and some in salt form. Only in acid form it will function as preservative.
Salt is more water soluble but not effective. Acid is effective but not water soluble more than 0.07%.
If you add even 0.6% and it all dissolved in water, it means they are all in salt form and not effective. 

[Abdullah]

In underdeveloped countries they drink any type of water they can find so that may not be an option. 
If she can not filter wayer by herself, the good option will be to use mineral bottled water from reputable big brands to be sure that they are clean + chelating agent.

[Abdullah]

dehydroacetic acid is only 0.07% water soluble. I don’t know how much effective it would be.

[Abdullah]

Robert said:

@Abdullah @ketchito 
Do not you think that anionic surfactants lower than 9% as an active material is un acceptable as a shampoo?
Also 1501 will definitely separated, 
as a suggestion i am adding cetrimonium chloride combined with SLES in the shampoo some how is good on hair but not perfect, I am disappointed with shampoos becuase I tried everything to make shampoo for soft and smooth effect on hair but all the time failed

waiting any suggestion

I don’t think so

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

Syl said:

I personally like a PH of 5 or less because hair cuticules are smoother at that pH preventing tangles.

When you rinse with water that has pH 7, it doesn’t matter anymore what was the pH before rinsing. 

@Abdullah I think , a lower or higher ph whatever give the impact on skin or hair, can’t be affected by the water with ph7 because neutral can’t change the ph else no change their impact too.

Neutral changes the pH to neutral. 

For example, take 5g shampoo that has pH 5, mix it with 100g water, final pH would be around 7. Not 5. 
This is what happens when you wet your hair and apply shampoo. Then when you rinse it with extra water, it becomes a definite ph 7.

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

@Abdullah when should we add EDTA in the solution, before neturalisation or after it? Any particular time or step? In detergent case. 

It is better to add EDTA earlier to solution

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Not normal

Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.

Have you used Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? 
How do you compare it to 100k cst amodimethicone?

[Abdullah]

Red_Head said:

ketchito said:

@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? 

About bis-aminopropyl dimethicone i read:

“It actually bonds to damaged areas on the hair’s cuticle”

That is, it sticks like amodimethicone, only to negatively charged areas of the hair, but better than amodimethicone (it seems to me) and worse than dimethicone. Logically, this means that regular dimethicone will stick everywhere, not just selectively, like BA dimethicone.

If dimethicone accumulates better (not to the point of build-up, I think build-up is almost impossible considering that most shampoos are SLES + CAPB), does this not mean that it will protect the hair better, because it is more difficult to wash off, sticks more and reacts less to physical actions (combing, touching hands, styling hair)?

Another thought is that most of the big companies use dimethicone, amodimethicone, dimethiconol in their formulas. I see BA dimethicone only in products from P&G (I mean from the mass market).

I haven’t had a chance to compare dimethicone and BA dimethicone in the same formula, so all I’ve said is just a theory that may have nothing to do with the real situation, which is why I asked.

All of them deposit on all parts of hair. Amodimethicone binds more to damaged parts. 
For example: if total 6mg silicone deposit on hair, for dimethicone, it will deposit equally on all parts of hair. For amodimethicone, 4mg will deposit on tips that are damaged and need more conditioning and 2mg will deposit on roots that are healthy and don’t need more silicone. 

[Abdullah]

Syl said:

I personally like a PH of 5 or less because hair cuticules are smoother at that pH preventing tangles.

When you rinse with water that has pH 7, it doesn’t matter anymore what was the pH before rinsing. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

304 is prob ok.  Never plastic - impossible to effectively sanitize ongoing.
I’ve used low level hypochlorite injection for household product water.  Would oxidize iron.  No experience with formalin.

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

How about adding preservative like formalin to storage water as i use it in shampoo anyway? Is it a good idea?

[Abdullah]

What about ss 304 or HDPE plastic for water storage?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Water is a primary source of contamination in cosmetic manufacturing.  Stored, in whatever tank, vessel, bugs will grow and perpetuate themselves in biofilm.  You’ll need some mechanism to control that problem and that typically involves a recirculating systems - the optimal systems is preserved with as constant heated water or ozone treated.  Some use UV light and a micro filter recirculating through a storage tank with periodic sanitization of the system.
Hope you/ve stainless steel rather than PVC.

It is metal, some kind of iron, but not stainless steel. I will ask them what is the name of that metal.

Which of thse that you mentioned is the least expensive option?

If i add EDTA or preservative to storage water, will it help? 

[Abdullah]

nycnj said:

@Abdullah what is the purpose of the chelating agent?

It has many functions but most chemist’s use it to bost preservation.

[Abdullah]

Anna_Maria said:

Abdullah said:

Maybe you are using too much amodimethicone  too. 

In my opinion even 1% BTMS is more than enough. But it is just me.

I’m using 3% amodimethicone

In my opinion even 0.3% is more than enough.

[Abdullah]

@evchem2 that i don’t know how to disinfect the rank when it is full of water.

@PhilGeis do you mean don’t store water in production tank or don’t store at all?