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Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Micellar Cleansing Water

  • Micellar Cleansing Water

    Posted by ttk102360 on November 27, 2019 at 9:37 am

    I want to make a Micellar Cleansing Water product with ingredients SAFEELIA CW-300 (Glycerin/Pentylene Glycol/Caprylyl & Capryl Glucoside/Lauryl Glucoside/Polyglyceryl-10 Laureate/Sodium Hydroxypropylsulfonate Laurylglucoside Crosspolymer/1,2-Hexanediol), PEG-8 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Propanediol, Glycerin, Panthenol and preservatives. My question is how is Micellar Water and Water different? What can I do to make this makeup remover more effective? Is it Micellar Water if I add a little thickener?

    ariepfadli replied 6 months ago 10 Members · 20 Replies
  • 20 Replies
  • OldPerry

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    November 27, 2019 at 1:26 pm

    Water is nothing but water.
    Micellar water has surfactants in it that helps to remove oil.
    Use a higher level of surfactant to make the makeup remover more effective.
    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term. You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is whether your consumers believe it.

  • Pharma

    Member
    November 27, 2019 at 8:16 pm

    Perry said:


    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term.
    You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is
    whether your consumers believe it.

    Not quite; sure, micellar water is mostly used as marketing term but it
    is also a scientific one. Every surfactant in water, at a given minimum
    concentration (critical micelle concentration aka CMC), builds micelles.
    This is one of three (?) feature which makes a surfactant a surfactant
    (notably, most non-polymeric emulsifiers have the same features and also
    form micelles but these have simply lower HLB values).

    The
    water in your lavatory or your bathtub is, scientifically speaking,
    micellar water once you added enough soap, shampoo or washing agent to
    form the first bubbles.

  • OldPerry

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    November 27, 2019 at 9:40 pm

    You’re right, I wasn’t precise enough. While it is a marketing term, if you start with the notion that micellar water is a solution that contains micelles then there has to be some minimum level of surfactant to be able to call something a micellar water.

  • Gunther

    Member
    November 28, 2019 at 1:08 am

    Is that “micellar water” meant to be rinsed off?

    If its is, then Panthenol and Glycerin can be removed (or reduced to claim ingredient levels 0.1-0.01%) as they’ll do nothing useful and just end up in the drain.
    It it’s not then be careful as glucosides can leave a sticky afterfeel (they even leave a sticky feel in rinse off applications).

  • MarkBroussard

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    November 28, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    Generally, Micellar Waters are not intended to be rinsed off.  Rather, applied with a cotton ball or sponge as a leave-on cleanser.  They also generally contain just a touch of surfactant, in the 1% to 2% range.

  • ttk102360

    Member
    November 29, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    Generally, Micellar Waters are not intended to be rinsed off.  Rather, applied with a cotton ball or sponge as a leave-on cleanser.  They also generally contain just a touch of surfactant, in the 1% to 2% range.

    Thanks mark. I see a market product like what you say EAU FRAICHE DOUCEUR Micellar Cleansing Water. This product, it advertises no need to rinse with water. I tried makeup remover with lipstick, it still works well. I think it is a very good support step for facial cleanser.

  • ttk102360

    Member
    November 29, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    Pharma said:

    Perry said:


    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term.
    You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is
    whether your consumers believe it.

    Not quite; sure, micellar water is mostly used as marketing term but it
    is also a scientific one. Every surfactant in water, at a given minimum
    concentration (critical micelle concentration aka CMC), builds micelles.
    This is one of three (?) feature which makes a surfactant a surfactant
    (notably, most non-polymeric emulsifiers have the same features and also
    form micelles but these have simply lower HLB values).

    The
    water in your lavatory or your bathtub is, scientifically speaking,
    micellar water once you added enough soap, shampoo or washing agent to
    form the first bubbles.

    Thank you. You explained very well.

  • ttk102360

    Member
    November 29, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    Gunther said:

    Is that “micellar water” meant to be rinsed off?

    If its is, then Panthenol and Glycerin can be removed (or reduced to claim ingredient levels 0.1-0.01%) as they’ll do nothing useful and just end up in the drain.
    It it’s not then be careful as glucosides can leave a sticky afterfeel (they even leave a sticky feel in rinse off applications).

    Thank you for your review. I think it is also a problem I need to check with panthanol, and glycerine. I think glycerine and glycol, it has good solubility. It helps to remove a few things. I think it’s necessary

  • ttk102360

    Member
    November 29, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    Perry said:

    Water is nothing but water.
    Micellar water has surfactants in it that helps to remove oil.
    Use a higher level of surfactant to make the makeup remover more effective.
    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term. You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is whether your consumers believe it.

    Thank you. I think I have to check the surfactant concentration. As @Mark‘s comment, it’s pretty cool. Interestingly, I have more ideas for my products

  • Aziz

    Member
    November 29, 2019 at 10:26 pm

    Gunther said:

    Is that “micellar water” meant to be rinsed off?

    If its is, then Panthenol and Glycerin can be removed (or reduced to claim ingredient levels 0.1-0.01%) as they’ll do nothing useful and just end up in the drain.
    It it’s not then be careful as glucosides can leave a sticky afterfeel (they even leave a sticky feel in rinse off applications).

    Miceller water is.not a rines off water .  It is a leave on water , It is used to remove oily make up from face without rines off , so Panthenol or any other moisturiseres may be usued for soothing effect . 
    @Perry In miceller water , some oil or fragrance dissolved in excess amount of a solubuliser agent like polysorbat 20 etc. This excess amount of solubuliser remove oil based make up from face . 

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    November 30, 2019 at 4:34 am

    A random question to the experts: why the majority of commercial micellar waters have poloxamers (or PEG-6 C/C glycerides) as main surfactants? The first ones are less gentle on eyes and the latter is extremely bitter (it maters when you use it to remove lipstick). There are wonderful and cheap polysorbates without above listed issues and they cleanse well. What’s the deal with polaxomers?

  • Gunther

    Member
    November 30, 2019 at 8:21 pm

    A random question to the experts: why the majority of commercial micellar waters have poloxamers (or PEG-6 C/C glycerides) as main surfactants? The first ones are less gentle on eyes and the latter is extremely bitter (it maters when you use it to remove lipstick). There are wonderful and cheap polysorbates without above listed issues and they cleanse well. What’s the deal with polaxomers?

    I wonder if that’s because poloxamers reportedly become slightly gel-like at body temperature and liquid at room temperature.
    They don’t fully gel in micellar waters because they’re used in at low concentrations

    Other than that I can’t think another reason why they’re used. We’ll have to wait to see what the more knowledgeable guys say about it.

    An important characteristic of poloxamer solutions is their temperature dependent self-assembling and thermo-gelling behavior. Concentrated aqueous solutions of poloxamers are liquid at low temperature and form a gel at higher temperature in a reversible process.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poloxamer#Micellization_and_phase_transitions

  • MarkBroussard

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    December 1, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    Poloxamers are used both a surfactants and to give body to the micellar water when applied to the face so it is not runny … it double-purposes as a surfactant and thickener.  PEG-6 C/C glycerides are used as solubilizers to remove oil from the face.

  • Gunther

    Member
    December 4, 2019 at 10:10 pm

    A random question to the experts: why the majority of commercial micellar waters have poloxamers (or PEG-6 C/C glycerides) as main surfactants? The first ones are less gentle on eyes and the latter is extremely bitter (it maters when you use it to remove lipstick). There are wonderful and cheap polysorbates without above listed issues and they cleanse well. What’s the deal with polaxomers?

    Interesting point.
    I thought the same thing too.

    Which polysorbate would you use and why?

    I read that SPAN (Tween/polysorbate younger cousins) may work better than polysorbates do, and Tween/Span combinations would be even better to remove makeup.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    December 4, 2019 at 11:05 pm

    I like polysorbate 80. It’s Old but gold. I am very fussy about eye tingling and like water resistant makeup (which doesn’t help). Polysorbate 80 is very gentle on eyes. I use it in both oil cleanser (poly 80, alkyl benzoate and a little bit of Cithrol 10 gtis) and micellar water. I don’t see much difference in performance between 1.5% of PEG-6 cc glycerides and poly 80 in a micellar water. 

  • Fekher

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    November 23, 2022 at 5:55 am

    @MarkBroussard 1% to 2% as actif mater? 

  • Abdullah

    Entrepreneur
    November 23, 2022 at 12:07 pm

    Fekher said:

    @MarkBroussard 1% to 2% as actif mater? 

    In my opinion If you don’t dilute it with water, 2% active surfactant is too strong. 

  • Fekher

    Professional Chemist / Formulator
    November 24, 2022 at 5:49 am

    @Abdullah thanks, however don’t you think that less then 1% active surfactant is too weak for removing make up?! 

  • Abdullah

    Entrepreneur
    November 24, 2022 at 11:58 am

    I don’t know about make up removal but in Shampoo it is usually 0.2-0.5% when diluted.

  • ariepfadli

    Member
    November 29, 2022 at 6:08 pm

    I make micellar water using ceteareth-25, peg 7 cocoate and some amphoteric mild surfactant, with additional solubilized like PG,BG and small amount ester like IPP etc

    works finely and even for heavy foundation and pen mark on skin, it’s no need to rinse, and not too foaming