[Abdullah]

What does your lotion already have? 

Maybe than is enough ????

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

Price and availability. The 90% stock is mainly for excipient in pharma,intermediate in specialty synthesis and is far more refined and expensive. Plus the C16/C18 works just fine. The exception is when used in stearyl alcohol/cyclomethicone antiperspirant stick systems. It is referred to as “Deodorant Grade” then when ordering.

A supplier is offering both 40% and 90% mono at the same price. Which one do you suggest should i purchase? 
40% or 90% mono? 

I am using it with cetearyl alcohol+SLS+ xanthan gum in lotions. 

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

Answer: not much. CAPB contributes negative conditioning to hair by itself, but it does help to form coacervates with conditioning quats that do condition hair. Polyquaternium-7 comes to mind.

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

Riyas said:

Abdullah said:

Yes you can use pq7 as foam booster

Yes , I did used 0.2% Pq 7. But on the next day foam is reduced. It’s not working well.
Can you suggest a different one.?

Pq7 has ~10% active so you need to use 2% to get 0.2% of it in Product. 

[Abdullah]

What is the formula?

[Abdullah]

Yes you can use pq7 as foam booster

[Abdullah]

Graillotion said:

Sound like a topic for @Pharma , as he loves the latter gum.

Here is a comparison chart (different):

Acacia Seyal - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

As I now only use Solagum AX…I also have a special place in my heart for the latter gum.

A supplier is offering acacia seyal at very good price but i dont know how it will compare to acacia senegal

[Abdullah]

My phenoxyethanol doesn’t smell like rose too.

[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

90% C18 stearate is rarely used, that’s used as an intermediate in synthesis or in pharma. You are fine using the 40/60 stuff. I’ll also add that the classic builder for LGN emulsions is cetearyl alcohol with glyceryl stearate at ratio about 3:1for best results. I personally find using just plain cetyl alcohol with GMS works fine 95% of the time.

Can i ask what is the reason that 90% C18 stearate is rarely used in cosmetics? 
Price or performance?

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah If you’re mixing with a silver spoon, chances are the darkening is due to the presence of hydrogen sulfide, not corrosion from NaOH. Stainelss steel doesn’t show the same behavior as silver (304 is a type of stainless steel commonly used in industrial plants), so you better use a stainless steel spoon, or a plastic one.

I don’t believe NaOH is your issue, but the only way something else (like Sodium silicate) could reduce the potential corrosiveness of NaOH (again, at the level of dilution you’re using NaOH there shouldn’t be a problem) is if you had a stronger oxidant that could passivate the metal surface.

Spoon is not silver or ss. I dont know what is the material name but commonly plates and spoons are made from this material. 

[Abdullah]

ggpetrov said:

If you are talking about a lotion/cream and if you use a high HLB emulsifier, you should use GMS to lower the HLB. It’s hard to explain but the lowering of the HLB makes the emulsions tactile softer and very pleasant. It’s a matter of experiment to get the exact percentage of the GMS, but avoid to use too much. Better start with something small - 1% for example. 

That is what i was doing too. 

As there are blends of emulsifiers that has SLS: GMS and SLS: cetearyl alcohol, i started to make one by myself and see which one is better. 

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Using Polyglyceryl 4 laurate instead of SLS changes the rules of the game (they are nowhere near comparable).

Aren’t they both high hlb surfactants for LGN emulsions?

[Abdullah]

SLES

[Abdullah]

@ggpetrov yes it is a bit unpleasant.
Which version of gms were you using? 40% or 90% mono?

@ketchito these products are stable for less than a month yet at room temperature but i have another sample, same GMS formula but polyglyceryl 4 laurate instead of SLS from 12 months ago and it is stable yet.

@Gordof thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

I would remove dimethicone and use some PHENYLTRIMETHICONE if the purpose is for shine.

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Could you be a bit more specific when you mention the change in texture of your spoon? Could you try mixing your solution of Sodium hydroxide with the same spoon to see if the phenomena is the same?

As I told you before, NaOH is commonly used in the industry to neutralize LABSA. Here’s a guide from Stepan, so you can have a reference of the amount needed to neutralize LABSA (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.stepan.com/content/dam/stepan-dot-com/webdam/website-product-documents/product-bulletins/surfactants/BIOSOFTS101.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjlo4v1wfb7AhWjHLkGHX6jCW0QFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FQr50dubD94EsUzZd6VnY).

To your question, adding Sodium silicate wouldn’t reduce the potency of Sodium hydroxyde, on the contrary.

It turned the color of spoon into dark grey almost black. 

Sodium silicate doesn’t reduce the potency of sodium hydroxide but does it reduce it’s corrosion effect on metals?

[Abdullah]

Graillotion said:

@Abdullah and @chemicalmatt … I was reading the propaganda (and it sounded wonderful) on the :

Polyglyceryl-6 Distearate

And even had a source lined up (Thai Place)… and then came to this line 

Optimum pH is 6, but stable between 5.5 and 10.

As this is a deo….pH must be below that…..way below that. 

Any other ideas that might fit the bill…but would love working at 4.3 pH?  And if at all possible…prefer to stay O/W.

I have lotion sample from 2 years ago that is stable at pH 4.8-5. 
I think it has no problem at pH 4-5.

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Sodium silicate can work (check its solubility over time…that you need to test yourself since every system is different), along with STPP. Sodium hydroxide is also used, and within normal use, it shouldn’t be corrosive in final application.

I recently made a 500g liquid laundry detergent with LABSA and added 6% of a 10% sodium hydroxide solution mixing with metal tablespoon pH 10-11, after 4-5 minutes of mixing it changed the texture of tablespoon. 

If i use sodium salicylate and sodium hydroxide together with LABSA, will sodium silicate prevent the corrosion effect of sodium hydroxide and LABSA during production? 

[Abdullah]

You can use any w/o emulsifier as low hlb co emulsifier in o/w system.

[Abdullah]

Polyglyceryl 6 distearate

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Abdullah Perhaps you mean Calcium carbonate instead of Sodium carbonate? Sodium carbonate is added to reduce water hardness and as a filler in some powder products, but it’s not the best choice to reduce water hardness precisely because of the formation of Calcium carbonate which can accumulate in pipes and deposit on fabrics. I don’t understante the comment about Sodium hudroxide, since to form a carbonate salt, you need to add some carbonate source. Silicates are good alkalinity reservoirs, but initial solubility can be a problem (tends to precipitate). 

Yes calcium carbonate. 

My question was does silicate also deposit on fabrics or not? 

I am going to purchase a 48% liquid sodium silicate, will it’s solubility also be a problem? 

What is the top alkalizer you do suggest? 

STPP is not so effective. pH sometimes drop to 7 during wash even with high amount of STPP. 
Sodium hydroxide is very corrosive even when making 500g samples. I can’t imagine how to work with it in large quantities.

[Abdullah]

Here is the file

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

In any geography - do not exceed 7.5 ppm active (CMIT+MIT) - 5 ppm is adequate.

Don’t know the origin of this “Global Regulatory” but it is bogus
     PCPC is an industry organization - it approves nothing
     there is no regulatory limit.
     CMIT/MIT should NOT be used in leave-on products

Thanks 

This data was from lonza about Isocil® PC preservative.

[Abdullah]

@ketchito @RobboAU thanks for the information. 

If i use CAPB: APG 1:1 ratio as cosurfactant, what ratio of SLS: cosurfactant do you suggest in this formula to make SLS stable in hard water? 

[Abdullah]

I don’t know about toothpaste but we are sanitizing with 100 ppm hypochlorite solution. 
Much cheaper than alcohol.