[Abdullah]

If your batch is not so big, you can make another batch without fragrance and mix them.

Although i advise to always use 0.2% xanthan gun for viscosity and stability

[Abdullah]

How much fragrance and that preservative is in your formula and what is the pH? That preservative and fragrance both reduce viscosity.

I use 0.005% fragrance in my lotions and it smell very well. You don’t need to add high amount of fragrance in a leave on emulsion.

For this batch you can add 0.2% xanthan gun in 1 or 2% glycerin and mix it with high shear mixer. Also add a preservative for fungi too.

[Abdullah]

I am not using NACL to increase viscosity In these samples to see separation faster. With higher viscosity precipitation takes afew days.

[Abdullah]

@ketchito @Paprik

I did use the search bar and did everything advised there. Didn’t solve the problem.

Actually the precipitation was in shampoo with SLES: CAPB 14:2 active surfactant pH 5.

I did try different methods. Non of them worked.

1. Adding cationic guar to 25% water, add citric acid, viscosity and clarity increased, mixed for 20 minutes, added CAPB, EDTA, SLES.

2. Added SLES CAPB EDTA citric acid to water, pH 5, mixed cationic guar with 1% fragrance or 1% glycerin, then added it at the end and high shear mixing. Next day it has precipitated.

It doesn’t have fish eye or anything

????

[Abdullah]

Could it that 20 minutes mixing is not enough for gum hydration and need more time?

[Abdullah]

My 10% SLS power needs 16% of a 50% citric acid solution to reduce the pH to 5.5. how much citric acid did you use?

[Abdullah]

Is it water thin?

[Abdullah]

Add some EDTA

[Abdullah]

0.05% EDTA would increase the viscosity a bit.

Use this preservative at 1% of total formula. Not 1% of water phase.

I would also recommend CMI or dmdm hydantoin

[Abdullah]

pH 7 is good too.

It is active surfactant.

You will use it once a month, not everyday and it is clarifying shampoo, it has to be a bit Strong.

[Abdullah]

I would increase total anionic surfactants

Like

5% AOS

3% sci

6% glutamate

2% amphoteric

pH ~6

pH 8 is not good

[Abdullah]

Just use some SLS, SLES or AOS because you are using it less often or increase sci and glutamate and decrease amphoterics in your current formula

[Abdullah]

It is not enough in my experience. I think it was 0.7 or 0.8% and pH 5-5.5.

You can try it. Make a 0.2% guar gum solution with 0.8% of this preservative and you will see.

[Abdullah]

In emulsion it is different, you have other types of thickeners too and they work in synergy.

[Abdullah]

Thanks

Some questions

1. What cationic guar do you use? The one i have purchased recently, supplier said Our product LH-1470 can replace the product C13s from Tianci.

2. How much citric acid do you use and reduce the pH of cationic guar to what?

3. In what percentage of water do you mix your cationic guar?

4. Is your sodium coco sulfate in powder form?

5. How much sodium coco sulfate do you use, what is it initial pH and how much citric to reduce it’s pH.

I have SLS powder but it needs very high amount of citric acid to adjust it’s pH. Like 4% solid citric acid to reduce pH of 5% SLS powder to 5 and this increases its price a lot.

[Abdullah]

Made another batch with 20 min mix before adding acid and 20 minutes after. Still precipitated

[Abdullah]

No, i was only mixing for 5 minutes before adding acid. What will 20 minutes mixing at this stage do?

Also i was using high shear only that the end after adding all surfactants.

Do you suggest i use high shear only after adding acid be before it too?

[Abdullah]

Aslo previously i was purchasing from another supplier, its color was aslo more yellow. This one i have purchased from a bigger manufacturer and at lower price, the color is also lighter, viscosity also a bit less.

Could it be that this product is bad or have problem?

[Abdullah]

By all the water you mean at least how much water?

My SLES is 23.3% active so i use 60% of it, 6.6% CAPB, 7% NACL 20% and only ~24% water is free at first for cationic guar

[Abdullah]

I will try adding EDTA first and see.

I have made different batches with different pH and all precipitated.

1. Reduce the pH to with 0.05% lactic acid 85 solution, that was final pH too

2. Reduces pH to 3.8 with 0.6% citric acid 50%, and at the end adjusted to pH 5 with 0.4% caustic soda 20%.

3. Reduces pH to 3.8 with 0.6% citric acid 50%, and at the end adjusted to pH 5 with 0.3% SLS power dissolved in 3% water.

[Abdullah]

@Paprik how did you solve your problem? Looks like they are the same

[Abdullah]

@DavidW where can i find this information?

[Abdullah]

You forgot to mention @Pharma

[Abdullah]

Surprisingly ???? i use jojoba oil to reduce my skin oiliness. Specially on nose and it reduces oil production very well.

[Abdullah]

Your surfactants also have water